GFCI

I had a contrator put in a BBQ area and pergola for me. A couple of weeks ago the lights stopped working. The contractor sent the electrician who did the original electrical installation to fix it. He pressed the GFCI button and the lights work again. I asked him what the cause of the GFCI resetting and he said "they do that". I think it was just a symptom of another problem, possibly related to the heavy rain that we have had recently (as is usual in Texas).

Is GFCI designed to spontaneously reset? If not, what is the cause of this?

Thanks!

Reply to
Andrew Chalk
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No, they reset when you push the reset button. They will trip if water gets into the wireing.

Reply to
Rich Greenberg

Sometimes they do that.

Could have even been excessive moisture from the rains.

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

I agree with the guy that they do seem to do that. If you had a licensed electrician put the thing in I would not sweat it. If though the feed somehow could have gotten wet, that's what gfci is intended to react to, which may indicate some sort of leak somewhere ? Did they run the outdoor wire thru a conduit and all that jazz ?

Reply to
roger61611

Thanks, to you and Edwin. The wire is running through conduit. Shouldn't it be weatherproof against heavy (but normal, expected) rain?

Reply to
Andrew Chalk

Umm, no, they do NOT do that "sometimes" if everything is installed correctly. Sorry, don't mean to sound confrontational, but a GFCI tripping is an indication that something went wrong whether it was water or whatever that caused it to trip. They don't "just do that" for no reason. They would be useless in such a case.

Since this is a new installation, and assuming the user did nothing to cause the problem, that electrician needs to check out his work, or possibly an inspector. It does make sense that it was posibly water getting in somewhere, but it shouldn't have done so. "They do that" is an unacceptable resonse from the electrician. It's quite likely that if you don't call him on it now, you may well be calling him later, like after he won't warranty the work any longer due to time. Even if he says there's nothign he can do, by submitting a complaint, he's been put on notice so that when the problem IS aboe to be solved, he'll still be responsible for doing so. And actually, if he's worth his salt, there is something he can do.

HTH,

PopS

Reply to
Pop

No offense, but you say that if it was a licensed electrician it's OK don't sweat it, but then you ask how the installation was done? The OP isn't likely to know whether it was done to "all that jazz" or he wouldn't have posted here.

IMO, that's an unacceptable situation and the electrician/contractor needs to be put on notice that it needs to be taken care of.

Reply to
Pop

"Andrew Chalk" wrote in message news:YYmte.88$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...

===> Yes, it should be as you questioned. If necessary, you could suggest you may have to talk to the code enforcement office to get them to get out there and fix the installation. Something isn't right if the GFCI opens spontaneously like that. Otherwise you'll have to get used to wondering what/where it's tripping from, the nuisance trips, and/or paying for the final fix yourself. An electrician should know better than to tell you what he said.

HTH, PopS

Reply to
Pop

If it's only happened once, and a thunderstorm was involved, you shouldn't have to worry. A nearby lightning strike (either cloud-to-cloud or cloud-to-ground) can sometimes also trip a GFCI, thru an induced current -- an infrequent (emphasize "infrequent") GFCI trip is not necessarily a problem, especially if you can associate the occurence with a severe thunderstorm. Regards --

Reply to
World Traveler

Hi, Taken care of? OP'er said it rained. GFCI did it's job. Unless it keeps happening over and over, I wouldn't worry about it. Tripped once after rain and..... hmmm, What is your idea? GFCI should never trip? If not, when does it suppose to trip? Tony

Reply to
Tony Hwang

As I pointed out. Sure, there was a reason, but the conditions may have changed ten minutes later and the real cause is never found. Excessive moisture across a plug can do it. That means it is working as it should.

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

Sorry to burst this bubble, but GFCIs can trip for what *appears* to be "no reason", and this is why codes never make them manditory for outlets used for refrigerators.

Transient noise on a power line can cause GFCIs to trip, however I suspect it would be EXTREMELY rare for such noise to trip a GFCI that did not have a load on it at the time. Since the original poster mentioned lights that stopped working, it sounds to me that the lights are downstream from the GFCIs and could possibly have been a load on it when a transient (spike) hit it.

Transients are high frequency noise on the power line, and high frequencies propogate slowly (relative to the speed of light) down a transmission line, which the power line would serve as. GFCIs work by detecting a difference in current between the line and neutral. The slow propogation of a spike can lead to a sensitive GFCI to detect an imbalance long enough for it to trip.

This would *appear* as a "no reason" trip, yet there is a reason. It is just not a safety reason.

I once knew someone who had a pool pump on a GFCI and claimed that every lightning storm his pool was "hit by lightning" because the GFCI would trip. LOL -- if his pool was hit, his problem would be a lot greater than just resetting the GFCI! The electrical storm was causing transients on the power lines in the area that were the cause of the GFCI tripping.

Reply to
Calvin Henry-Cotnam

No, as another poster mentioned, lightning could possibly do that. The OP didn't say anything about that though; only a lot of rain. If it tripped because of water entry, and since it's a new install, it's going to trip more often and shouldn't have tripped. The contractor teling him not to worry was a tipoff that he should put the contractor on notice so that if it trips next time it rains, he will have to remedy it. Otherwise the contractor gets to say it didn't bother until now? Oh, not my job then. I am reacting mostly to the glib response about it being "normal" for them to trip. They should NEVER trip unless they see an imbalance in the current flows. If water's getting into a new install, something's not right. They should only trip when there is a fault in an item plugged into that gfci protected line. And water should not be getting into the wiring.

Reply to
Pop

No, I don't think that's what it means. I think the contractor's glib response that they'll "do that" is out of line and indicative that he knew where the water got in. His response was out of line for a professional, if the facts are all as stated.

PopS

Reply to
Pop

Hi, So to prove the installation was not perfect, we have to wait for another rain, right? Tony

Reply to
Tony Hwang

It may be defective, or it may be working as designed.

If moisture is getting into it or the circuit, it may be sensing a current leak and tripping legitimately. In that case, you may have to relocate it or get a better cover on it to protect it from the elements.

If it trips repeatedly without reasonable cause, it may be defective.

I have a couple on outside receptacle, and it trips once or twice a year. "They do that" covers that kind of repetitive trip.

Reply to
John Weiss

You should be more concerned about the receptacle area itself, not necessarily the wiring running to it.

Reply to
John Weiss

I think this all depends on your definition of "they do that." Yes, they can trip because of some reason which is never really known for sure, like a transient, but that should be relatively rare. I have had GFCI on outside outlets that I can't recall ever tripping. It certainly should not trip just from a regular rainstorm. I'd keep an eye on it and see if it repeats.

Reply to
trader4

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message news:v4qte.1743736$Xk.567991@pd7tw3no...

Well, from what has been said about the contractor's response, maybe. It's only my opinion, but I'd have been pretty exasperated by anyone that told me they "just do that" without knowing why he said that. Personally I would see if I couldn't get the guy to come back out and take care of the problem now. Since he's already been there after the storm, it should be easy to find the place where water got into the system. He probably already knows, but didn't want to fix it. That's why I say to put him on notice that you want it fixed, so he'll know you're goign to expect himn to take care of it next time it rains or gets sprayed by the hose, or whatever (which, BTW, could be, not IS, dangerous). Another poster mentioned the plug getting wet and shorting, but if the receptacle is the proper kind, with proper gaskets and flip-open covers, the plug pins shouldn't be able to get wet from rain. A garden hose yes, but not rain. Outdoor receptacles are a lot different than indoor receptacles. IMO, it's more likely the water got into a box or even the receptacle box, or a joiner or other conduit fixture that was either the wrong type or poorly assembled or had a manufacturing defect. Everything above assumes, of course, that you dont' have any jerry-rigged plugs on equipment plugged into that outlet; I don't think you mentioned whether anythng was plugged into it when it opened, but I assumed not, now I think of it. If something plugged into it got wet, that equipment also could open the gfci, of course. At any rate, GFCI's do not "just do that". They trip on a very specific current condition so that they will turn the power off before it reaches lethal levels where one could come in contact with it. IN a perfect world, that guy would get right back out there and look for the problem, and/or offer to come instantly the next time it pops on you. I doubt very much your contract specifies a GFCI that "just does that", since you can't buy such a thing. If he's resisting you, then a chat with your local code enforcement office might be interesting and if they're in a good mood, they might ask you a few questions that could be enlightening too. Don't be afraid to call; that's part of why they're there. Was the work inspected? If you can, talk to the inspector - he's actually seen the work and might have a comment or two on it.

Anyone have an NEC read on this? I dont' have access to the book right now.

HTH,

PopS

Reply to
Pop

According to Calvin Henry-Cotnam :

I suspect, rather than line transients, it was actually _ground_ transients inducing current in the line.

Reply to
Chris Lewis

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