Per snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca:
When I was about nine years old, I found myself in the smoke from somebody burning vegetation - and not just a couple hundred feet away... Wound up face, neck, arms, and legs covered with what looked/felt like poison ivy.
Well, it's rained twice since I sprayed the vine with the hot vinegar/salt/detergent mixture and 3 out of 4 leaves died already. One survived and I sprayed it again this morning. The jury is still out.
This spot is on a fence, so, if I have to salt it to kill it, I don't want anything growing there, anyway.
ok. I've got to know, now. How do you know?
So, how do you keep from getting the rash?
The yellow raincoat i use for poison oak clearing is covered in stick marks like that. The other half of the equation is TecNu.
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As long as I take a shower within 80 minutes of exposure, no rash. A two hour exposure yields a light rash.
On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 17:43:31 -0000 (UTC), Danny DiAmico wrote in
In the rural south-east where I live, farmers will put goats out on the area they want cleared. The goats eat it all.
I wish.
Next door neighbor has 12 acres, I have 10. He has goats and horses, we have cats.
He was running out of fodder for his goats so asked if he could use my "back lot". It's only about an acre, I don't use it so I said sure (keeps me from periodicaly mowing it). He ran some fence, put his goats there a year ago.
Now, it is overrun with weeds; mostly dog fennel and it gets BIG. His place is also overrun with weeds (never mows). Now I'm going to have to have him take his goats home so we can eradicate the weeds. Maybe I should let him do it.
On Thu, 28 Apr 2016 12:07:12 -0400, "dadiOH" wrote in
That's interesting. I wonder if different goats are used for "clearing"?
Preventing an allergic reaction is science unto itself.
Bear in mind that almost EVERYTHING you read on the net is bad advice.
The guy to read is William L. Epstein, whose papers are the best I have ever found.
Almost all the crap you read on the net are old wives tales (e.g., shower with cold water only, use Tecnu only, etc.).
It's just chemistry and immunology. Complex yes. But it's science.
The urushiol is an oily alcohol, so, you treat it as such.
Unfortunately, the molecular size is such that it *diffuses* through your outer layers of skin within fifteen or twenty minutes, so, you don't have a lot of time to wholly prevent the langerhan's cells from uptake of the urushiol which is oxidized to a quinone.
Once your body starts reacting to the quinone with a cytokine storm, you're gonna get the rash. All you can do is ameliorate it if you get to the cytokine stage.
Before that, we use clothes. Lots of clothes. You can see that from my photos. The trick is to keep it off the skin, and, the second trick is almost impossible, which is to wash it off within fifteen minutes (which, if you're doing any real work, isn't a feasible time period).
Luckily Epstein has lots of studies published, but you have to go to a research library to read most of them.
Here's just one by the way, which gives you an idea of the immunology involved (suffice to say that most people can't handle this stuff as it's not filled enough with old wives tales so they can't understand it).
I looked up all the ingredients in Tecnu and Zanfel and I reproduce them in household chemicals because I am so covered in urushiol that I couldn't afford the $40/ounce creams when a 10 cents/ounce surfactant works almost as well.
Only the government can afford that stuff at the amounts that you need to clean up after being literally covered in urushiol.
I'm with the crowd that says the best *replacement* for poison oak is the natural foliage of the area given the climate.
I doubt salts provide all that much of a foothold for the natural inhabitants, so, I, myself, cut, paint, and remove.
Of course, I did mention that this is a ten-year project, and I'm only in about my fourth year - so - time will tell.
I've cleaned hundreds of square yards (about 500 yards by about 500 yards) of a hillside of the stuff. And there is plenty more to go.
Anyone who says they can 'spray' or 'salt' and win, isn't dealing with the same numbers that I'm dealing with.
The only thing that works in the size I'm dealing with is mechanical means, although after cutting I always paint the big vines (anything over an inch or so in diameter) to prevent regrowth (which is inevitable until it's completely removed - which is a ten-year effort).
They poison oak has a fifty-year head start on me, so, ten years is about right.
I have neighbors who volunteered their goats, but the area isn't fenced. They said if I fence it, I'm welcome to borrow the goats.
Fencing would cost too much on this steep hillside though.
How do you keep it from getting on your skin when you're trying to take off all the clothes you're wearing to protect your skin?? Then there's the oil on your gloves, and how do you clean the clothes and gloves so you can re-use them w/o getting the oil on you that way?
So, do you itch all the time? And is it contagious? LOL
All good questions.
You have found the real problem.
The real problem, like any problem, isn't the problem you KNOW about; it's the problem you don't know about.
Specifically, you can't SEE urushiol on clothes except as wet spots if you're lucky (it turns black later, after oxidizing, and, in fact, the name urushiol comes from its use as a black lacquer in Japan).
That is, if you're unaware that your BOOTS and TOOLS and DOGS have urushiol all over them, then, that problem is the REAL problem (not the fact that your clothes are slathered with the stuff because you KNOW your clothes are covered in the oily alcohol.
Actually, once you're aware, it's pretty easy; but it's the people who aren't aware who unknowingly contaminate everything!
For the tools and boots and gloves, what "I" do is I pretty much ignore the boots and gloves (they just have to stay contaminated). I just don't bring them in the house. They're leather, so, they're hard to wash (I gave up after ruining a few pairs).
For the tools, I leave them outside as well and just hose them down if I bother (generally I don't even bother).
The urushiol has been studied (by Epstein) to be active for 100 years (it's just an oil so there's not much to break it down) if it's kept safe in dendrology drawers.
However, outside, it does break down, but it could take years (five to
10 years are what I've heard the most, for dead vines). Longer if it's dry and shorter if it's wet. But, the point is, the oil is just an oil, so, think about it as motor oil.How long would motor oil last if it were left outside on your tools?
Anyway, in practice, the real problem is NOT KNOWING that your tools, gloves, dogs, and boots are covered in the stuff. Once you known it, you just give them the respect they deserve and you keep them from coming in the house.
It's a wives tale that the rash "spreads". It can't spread once it has penetrated into your skin. What people "think" is spreading is re-infection, which is EASY if you don't realize the tools, boots, gloves, dogs, even towels have the oil on them.
Just think of it as motor oil contamination and treat it accordingly.
It's impossible to mechanically remove as much poison oak as I do and not get some oil on the skin, but, the most important trick is to *assume* it's everywhere (i.e., between the fingers, behind the ear, between each toe, on the back of the neck, etc.).
Once you assume it's everywhere, you cover yourself head to toe in Dawn or Palmolive so thick in white paste that you look like a ghost. Every inch of your body (yes, every inch) gets covered in the white paste.
For good measure, I do that three times when I come back inside after a day's work (anyone who can shower every 15 minutes must work for the government, so, even though that would be optimal, it's not gonna happen).
Suffice to say it's a nice long hot shower (anyone who says you should showed in cold water is a fool because the more comfortable the shower, the more likely you'll shower and it's the showering that matters since your hair is certainly covered in the oil as is your face and neck and wrists and ankles).
The rest of the body seems to be relatively free, although there are times that the delicate webbing between the toes and fingers drives me crazy before I learned to assume it's everywhere during that most important long hot slathery shower.
At least you didn't inhale.
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