I have two Kohler toilets in my home. Both worked great until about four months ago when one would not quit running. The plumber has put in two new Fluid Masters, and it still runs without stopping.
I would say this happens about once out of every ten flushes, but it makes me nervous. I have to stick around after flushing to be certain it shuts off.
I purchased these toilets four years ago as I was told they were a good product. My plumber hates Kohler. Now he is telling me to get a Gerber toilet which I have never heard of.
Can anyone tell me if Kohler is considered a bad product, and what about a Gerber toilet? Have you had one?
Many thanks. This group has always been a big help.
For a standard toilet it may just be a slightly kinked chain... Take the top off and have a look. If you cannot figure it out...call the plumber who put it in.
Nothing wrong with either Kohler or Gerber...toilets are hardly rocket science.
Changing the toilet to fix a running toilet makes no sense.
All the parts involved in running are pretty much interchangeable from one brand to the next.
Just keep trying, eventually you'll get things just right and no more problems.
My most recent toilet is a Toto, a higher end model to boot. The Toto supplied stuff leaked, the first replacement leaked again, then the third try has been working fine for at least 10 years.
Why do you want to replace the toilet? It sounds like you're having a problem with the 'guts" of the toilet which were replaced by a plumber. Call him up. Most likely he'll stand behind his work.
Hi, Maybe she has too much money to spend. Every time toilet leaks, replace it. Wow! Find out what is causing the leak. Fill valve or flap. Is your water hard? (hint, hint...)
Two things cause a toilet to keep running. The float can be set too high and water runs down the overflow tube or the flapper is not sealing right. The float adjustment on the fluid master is just sliding it up and down the wire. Push it down, the water level is lower. If it is the flapper, try lengthening or shortening the chain, one link at a time until you find the sweet spot where it works right. Kohlers are particularly sensitive to this.
An email to the manufacturer's tech support will give you the recommended starting point. I think it was 9 links on my old Kohler one piece.
Over the past seven years I've had six Kohler toilets installed both at home and at work. They all work perfectly and Kohler has an outstanding reputation. Also installed Kohler faucets and shower controls. Sounds more like you need a new plumber. Have him come back and check his work as it may need adjusting.
After only four years you should not have needed both toilets repaired.
Hi, OP said her water is hard. Calcium residue build up can cause flapper seating not water tight. Sounds like plumber did not do his job proper investigating and checking things out. By now we pointed out all possibilities.
Unless you haven't told us something and UNLESS you're having problems with toilet stoppages, your problem isn't the design or brand of toilet, it's the flush valve and/or the adjustment of same.
Take the top off the tank, and observe how the tank refills after flushing when it is ok. Then see what is different when it keeps on running. Does water go over the top of the overflow tube because the float is not rising properly, or does the water leak/run out around the flapper valve at the bo ttom of the tank because it does notj reclose properly? The flapper valve assembly can be replaced for under $15 USD, plus plumbers labor. Shouldn't take more than 10 minutes if you have the flaper valve assembly. The float assembly can similarly be replaced for little money, an only a few minutes time.
I had one toilet that was running every 10 minutes. It had a piece of flexible plastic (rather than a chain) holding the flapper, and somehow the plastic had shrunk. It was not stretchable, but I bent the flush lever a little and that fixed that.
BTW, this is an old (looks like 3.5-gallon) toilet, and I was hoping to avoid replacing it because people were having problems with low-flow toilets.
This is a wild shot but it happened to us. Ours would do the same thing. After many times of looking it over I discovered that occasionally when flu shed the chain would kink a bit not allowing the flappeer to seat fully. F ixed by attaching a fishing weight to the chain which kept it from kinking.
If the Gerber will flush long poop like the Kohler, then go for it. I've heard some people complain they have to take a shovel and chop their poop in half with the Toto.
You could protect yourself from that with the Leak Sentry version of a Fluidmater valve:
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But I think the the problem is the chain to the flapper valve tucking under the valve because it's too long, or the chain is getting kinked close to where it attaches to the rod for the flush lever. The chain should sag just slightly when the flapper valve is closed.
Hard water has nothing to do with flapper valves leaking, unless the seat is made metal and has corroded, but Fluidmaster sells a seat renewal kit that's almost as easy to install as just a flapper valve. OTOH vinyl flapper valves eventually develop a dent where they fit against the seat. Any flapper that's not black is vinyl, but some black ones are also vinyl.
For many years, Gerber pressure flush toilets (plastic tank inside the ceramic tank) ranked at or near the top of Consumer Reports' toilet evaluations and were often the ones plumbers would install when they had to guarantee good flushing. But now there are many other toilets that flush just as well and don't need pressure tanks but instead use conventional valves. Personally, I wouldn't get a pressure flush toilet due to the possibility of explosion if the pressure tank (plastic) ruptures, and the surrounding ceramic tank provides no protection against that. Also pressure flush is noisy, and gravity flush toilets use conventional flush valves available everywhere cheaply.
Toilet ratings, Consumer Reports, 9/2012, Notice the lack of quality consistency among brands.
Model / Gravity or Pressure flush / gallons / removal of solids / bowl cleaning / noise
American Standard Champion 4 2002.014 G 1.6 A B A Gerber Avalanche 21-818 G 1.6 A B A Toto Drake CST7445 G 1.6 A A B Kohler Hiline Classic K-3493 P 1.4 A A F American Standard Clean 2514.101 G 1.3 B B B Aquasource AT1203-00 G 1.3 B B B Toto Eco Drake CST744E G 1.3 B B B Kohler Cimarron The Complete Solution K-11813 G 1.3 A C B Kohler Cimarron K-3589 G 1.6 A C B Kohler Wellington K-3575 G 1.3 A B B Gerber Avalanche HE-21-818 P 1.3 C A A American Standard Cadet 3 FloWise 2835.128 G 1.3 B D C Gerber Avalanche 21-014 G 1.3 C A A American Standard Cadet 3 Flowise 2403.128 G 1.3 B D C Gerber Ultra Flush 21-318 P 1.6 B A D Gerber Avalanche Ultra FLush 1.1 EF-21-318 P 1.1 A A D Penguin 524 G 1.3 C A B American Standard Cadet FloWise Pressure 2462.100 P 1.1 B A D Mansfield Alto 137-160 G 1.6 D F B Kohler Devnshire K-3488 G 1.6 F A A
Two new ballcocks, or two new flappers. When I see fluidmaster, I think of the ballcock, the 10" plastic valve, and not the flapper.
Two consecutive new FMs valves in the one bad toilet? Or two consecutive new flappers in the one bad toilet? I'm not clear what he did.
What will happen if it doesn't shut off? You'll waste water. That's bad, but not that bad.
I just went to Toyota and they told me both my inner universal joint boots were torn or leaking. They wanted $400 each to replace them. $800. One only had 85 miles on it and I looked at the other. I squeezed it all over and it was good as new. (The car has 85K, but maybe the previous owner replaced it. I don't know how long they normally last. But it was perfect.)
Kohler is fine. He wants to sell you toilets.
Gerber toilets only come in the 12" high model, for toilet training. That's what I was told, anyhow.
I presume he changed the flappers too??
I have what I presume are commonplace Elger toilets.
After buying 1000 Flushes and ruining all three flappers, I had no trouble buying replacments Maybe the fist one I bought didn't fit, but the next one did. I kept the model number and bought the same kind later. But then my hardware store was driven out of business, I assume, by the big boxes, and I couldn't find the model I wanted.
Finally found it at a wholesale style store, so I bought two boxes of
12, to last me my whole life. (I hope they don't get old in the box) The first one worked great. The second on in the identical toilet kept running, and I would have to keep the cover off the tank and use a stick or the brush end of a toilet bowl brush to push it down a little With the brush, I couldn't tell that it was moving, but I could soon tell that the water level was rising or the the flow was ending (I forget which.) It took close to 3 months With the next flapper that I needed, it worked just fine from the start. Since I had more than
20 left, I suppose I should have just changed the leaking one, but I'm glad I satisfied my curiosity.
So maybe the leaking flapper was malformed, or stored so that it became malformed. Or maybe he used a different model and it doesn't fit your toilet. They seem to sell few models these days, just one per brand, but they used to sell maybe 10 models Of course your toilets are new and should fit was is sold. Maybe he screwed up on purpose so he could sell you a toilet. Or maybe he didnt' notice it was malformed.
That sounds likely. If so, when the water is running too long, taking the tank lid off and pushing the flush handle down slowly, Kate should feel the excess chain pulling out from under the flapper. She should see it too, at least the second time. But just push the handle down until the resistance lessens and then the flapper should fall in place and the water level should start to rise. Or if it is already high, should soon stop running.
I recently had a Gerber 1.6 Avalanche installed. It is quiet, quick to refill, has so far has not had any valve problems. I've never have had to flush twice to clear the bowl of solids, but it is rare not to leave "skid marks" that don't clean off with subsequent flushes. I need to use a toilet bowl brush for a few seconds almost every day to keep things tidy. Other 2 toilets are conventional 5 gallon models that flush cleanly except maybe once or twice/month. I don't mind the inconvenience but my wife refuses to be bothered and just uses one of the other two toilets. Haven't had any house guests yet :-) .
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