GE Powermark Gold Loadcenter - ground bar vs. neutral bar

In this load center are the ground bar and neutral bar interchangeable?
I have the model in the picture, here:
http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/timnels/ScreenShot2012-11-18at94903AM.png
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I was told that used as a main panel the ground and neutrals must be tied together so they are the same, and grounds and neutrals can go wherever convenient. this info from a middle states inspector.
if used as a sub panel the bonding screw must be removed and grounds and neutrals MUST be on seperate bars
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On 11/18/2012 8:54 AM, noname wrote:

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/timnels/ScreenShot2012-11-18at94903AM.png
You probably have a screw that bonds the ground bar to the box and if you don't know, the ground and neutral are tied together at the main breaker panel only. The sub panels do not have the ground and neutral tied together. The panel in the picture can have the metal buss at the bottom tying the ground and neutral bars together removed so it can be used as a sub panel. ^_^
http://www.esgroundingsolutions.com/blog/287/why-do-you-have-to-bond-the-neutral-and-the-ground-wire-in-the-main-panel
http://tinyurl.com/bewzaz6
TDD
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wrote:

No, Even in the main panel (Service disconnect enclosure) you should hook the white wires to the isolated neutral bus(s) and hook the grounds to the grounding buses. If you ever decided to make this a sub, all you would have to do is remove the bonding screw/clip and add a 4 wire feeder but most importantly, it is a NEC violation to use the grounding bus for neutral wires (250.6) because you are using the enclosure as a circuit current path.
"250.6 Objectionable Current. (A) Arrangement to Prevent Objectionable Current. The grounding of electrical systems, circuit conductors, surge arresters, surge-protective devices, and conductive normally non–current-carrying metal parts of equipment shall be installed and arranged in a manner that will prevent objectionable current."
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On 11/18/2012 10:28 AM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

You can get a ground bar kit for that panel and keep both neutral bars but I have seen the bottom buss removed in order to use the left side as a ground. What I've done in the past is to install can mounted ground bars on either side connected together with a #4 bare copper which will keep the wiring a lot neater but everything depends on the local inspectors. Around here, the city engineering department has their own stricter requirements than the NEC but the county is much less strict in their interpretation. Oh yea, what's seen in my area is a #4 bare copper attached to the ground bar going to the ground rod and cold water pipe then a bonding screw at the main breaker panel tying the neutral bar/s to the can or a specially made jumper supplied by the panel manufacturer. The inspector may want a piece of #4 bare copper run to the ground bar from the neutral bar in addition to the factory supplied bonding method. It really depends on the local inspectors. O_o
TDD
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So since this is the only and main panel, I think the answer is the neutral bar and the ground bar are one and the same, yes?
On Sunday, November 18, 2012 12:22:39 PM UTC-5, The Daring Dufas wrote:

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I think the answer was the neutral wires go to the neutral bus. The ground wires go to the ground bus. The two buses are connected together right there, at the panel. That's different than mixing grounds and neutrals any which way in the panel.....
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I saw a panel, years ago. Each Romex, the white and ground went to the same bar. And, each romex's white and ground went under the same screw. I didn't like the looks of that, figured if one screw came loose, the circuit would lose ground and neutral, both, at the same time.
It was many years ago. Can't remember which of so many job sites.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
I think the answer was the neutral wires go to the neutral bus. The ground wires go to the ground bus. The two buses are connected together right there, at the panel. That's different than mixing grounds and neutrals any which way in the panel.....
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On Nov 18, 9:03pm, "Stormin Mormon"

you never want to put more than one screw under each bar screw, thats illegal for some excellent reasons
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wrote:

The terms of the UL listing are printed on the panel Label. These terms tell how many and what function of each screw terminal on the bars may carry. Been this way for years. Many stated "one neutral per terminal or two grounding conductors per terminal" or similar language. The panel UL listing terms apply under "in accordance with the Listing" sections of the Code.
--
Mr.E

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On 11/18/2012 2:47 PM, noname wrote:

It may depend on your local inspectors but I think I had taken too many of my prescription pain meds when I wrote that the buss bar at the bottom could be removed so the left neutral bar could be used for a ground but it really depends on the inspector. In my area, the city electrical inspectors won't allow grounds to be put on the neutral bar and a ground bar attached directly to the metal breaker box is required. As the main breaker panel, the neutral must be bonded to the ground, usually with one or two long screws which go through the neutral bar insulated standoffs and tap into the metal can of the breaker box. Some inspectors may want an additional #4 copper jumper from the neutral bar to the ground bar. If you have conduit coming into the panel, inspectors may also require a metal conduit grounding bushing which has a lug on the bushing which must be tied to the ground bar. In rural areas of my state where there is no electrical inspection, the power company will refuse to hookup an obvious cluster coitus but some of the things I've seen electrical wise in rural areas are hair raising(no pun). ^_^
TDD
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Always in the service the neutrals and grounds are bonded together with bon ding screw inspectors want neutrals on one side grounds on the other it wou ld not mater because the bonding screw bonds all together this is just at s ervice at sub panels there seperated
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On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 20:59:43 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

It matters because you do not want circuit current flowing through that screw. (250.6) You put neutrals on the neutral bus where the service neutral lands and you can put the grounds there or on the grounding bus(es). Generally it is best to use the grounding bus and save any unused neutral bus holes for future expansion.
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Just get on the RIGHT BUS and you won't end up the wrong part of town - the current, that is!
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< thekma > wrote in message

Make sure you don’t create a short circuit. That's the bus you're usually on!
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On 11/18/2012 2:47 PM, noname wrote:

...
No.
The ground is still the ground and the neutral is still the neutral, only that the neutral buss is bonded to the ground buss in the main panel.
That is mechanically different than treating them as interchangeable (even if tho are electrically bonded).
--
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On 11/18/2012 2:47 PM, noname wrote:

As a service panel it needs to have the neutral bar bonded to the enclosure, is usually done with what looks like a mounting screw that is usually green. It should come with the panel and you have to install it.
Looks like the bars are connected across the bottom. Then they are both neutral bars, but with the N-G bonding screw they can both be used for ground wires.
The panel has room for 20 full size breakers. Each bar has 20 screws. If you have all 20 full size breakers you can land a neutral and a ground wire for each breaker. If the panel can take half-sized breakers in some positions you may run out of screws. (The label will tell you which positions, if any, you can install half sized breakers.) You may be able to double up screws for ground wires - read the label. (UL and the NEC do not allow doubling up neutral wires.)
My Ouija board is not working today, but my guess is that the panel manufacturer intended that you can attach neutrals and grounds on the same side as the breaker.
If you add a ground bar (part number identified on the label) it will attach to the enclosure and, as gfretwell wrote, only ground wires can be connected to it.
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