Gasoline "additives": kerosene in gasoline?

Awl --
I recently became aware that fuel injector cleaner is basically kerosene..... !! It's also clear that alcohol is freely mixible in gasoline. In fact, http://monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/Monographs/vol45/mono45-8.pdf indicates a wide variety of stuff in gasoline, including aromatics (like benzene). The tables don't seem entirely consistent, but the point is, gas is a bit of a heterogeneous mix.
So the Q is: what can one "dump" into one's gastank, and how much, without gumming up the works? Including all these catalytic converters. Mebbe it's better to dump stuff in, say, the lawnmower??
And what do I mean by "stuff"? Unknown mixes of 2-stroke gas, kerosene, paint thinner, small amounts of old oil, any combustible really. You can put quite a bit of fuel injector cleaner (kerosene) in a gasoline car, on the order of a pint to just a few gallons of gas, and the car runs fine. But I'm not talking about a deluge of stuff, just a cup here, a cup there in a full-ish tank?
--
EA



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Depends on the cleaner. Some of them have other solvents like xylene, and some of them have detergents. The Lucas stuff appears to be almost entirely surfactants with some kerosene to keep them flowing, and it seems to work well.

Precisely.
It depends how much stuff it is. If anything, one of the advantages of modern cars over the lawnmower is that cars have feedback control of mixture today. You won't burn your valves running too lean, the way you might with a small engine with a carb.

In Mexico, I ran my BMW E28 on Pemex Verde when there wasn't anything else available and it ran the thing as rich as it could and retarded the timing like mad but it didn't seem to do any permanent damage. --scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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On 11/5/2012 1:52 PM, Existential Angst wrote:

...
...
Biggest problems w/ modern vehicles (injected w/ catalytic converters and OBD computers, basically) that I can see otomh are
a) contaminated/used oil w/ particulates to plug inline filters and perhaps injectors and
b) impurities that are harmful to the catalytic material (Pt) in the converter. Pb is the probably the most but it's very unlikely to find leaded gas any longer (but perhaps some of the non-fuel items or for old 2-cycle I don't know?). Other specific metals I know of that aren't good include Zn, Mn, Ph which exist or existed in at least some engine cleaners before. Of course, Si is another which is why it is bad when/if lose a head gasket on converter as well as the other nasties that does because it is common in antifreezes...
All in all, I'd tend to find something else to do with most of it, myself even though in small enough amounts and infrequently enough it's not likely to do serious damage I figure why take a chance on a sizable investment for the cost of a little aggravation? (Of course, it's a lot easier to get rid of stuff on 2000 A and large gravel driveways than on a city lot w/ everything paved over or lawn... :) )
--
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Existential Angst wrote:

Why would you want to do so?
To dispose of left-over petroleum products, you could just dump 'em down the storm sewer. They will lubricate the walls and help prevent flooding.
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On 11/5/2012 5:26 PM, HeyBub wrote: ...

That's about as bad as dumping them down the sanitary sewer (and the two join in some locations)...
Better than that would be to simply dump in a corner of the yard somewhere than putting them directly into the water system, small amounts though they be...
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Larger towns have hazardous waste disposal sites. Not sure what is, is not covered, but things like acids, herbicides/insecticides are def'ly covered. And of course most garages take used oil, at least around here.
And old diesel chariot would proly be the best, uh, vehicle for disposal. I was more thinking along the lines of recovering the *energy value* of this stuff..... every mickle makes a muckle.... every fickle....
--
EA


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On Mon, 5 Nov 2012 19:24:13 -0500, "Existential Angst"

Used motor oil can be used to heat ones shop nicely
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Gunner wrote:

So can old candles or bulk wax. We used to make stoves out of large coffee cans, rolled up cardboard & wax. Punch holes arounf d the side, about two inches above the cardboard & wax, and more right near the top. Then light it & cook in cast iron on the top.
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small quanties of waste oil dumped in the ground are digested by natural occuring bacteria......
perfectly safe done perodically in gallon quanties and under. I excavated my dump area after years of using the place for oil change dumping....
Not a trace of oil remained...
This is a realtive of the bacteria that digeste rubber tire wear along roads
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Take them to your local hazardous waste disposal site. Or drop them off at your local garage for recycling.
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HeyBub wrote:

I just dump gas on the driveway and let it evaporate.
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OT: it's common to use kerosene and gasoline as diesel "additives" to keep diesel liquid at low temps. Which obviously does not help the longevity of diesel engine (hello Jim Beam) Considering that kind of [ab]use I do not picture a used diesel car in my future :-))))))
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Existential Angst wrote:

Most cleaners are NOT kerosene. They do contain some light oils to keep the stuff freely flowing and lubricate the injectors but most of them are simple high detergent items. As far as alcohols, YEP they will mix with fuels, however it will separate out if left alone for a while. This is especially true of mixed fuels like used in 2 strokes. That is also why you should shake the can well before using stored fuels.
If you want to find out how to ruin O2 sensors and converters go for it. It doesn't take much oil or other chemicals to screw them up.
Since you are in the salvage business and probably will have some quantities of used oils, mixes and such. Why not at least get some benefit from it. Install a waste oil furnace and use the stuff to heat part of your building. The one I have will burn pretty much any oil/kerosene/diesel/gear oil that you can pump into it. You have to watch out for water/antifreeze or other non-combustibles. The easy way is to make a separator unit, the one I built is nothing more than two plastic drums with 4 different taps. You dump the unknown oil in it and let everything settle. Once the stuff has settled into layers it's easy to draw off the ones you can use.
--
Steve W.

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Hmmm, you are proly correct about the one I am using (up) now, but I seem to recall one that was primarily kerosene, altho I wouldn't bet the farm on that either. Do these kinds of labels adhere to the food label strat, where ingredients are listed in order?
As far as alcohols, YEP they will mix

Yeah, my conspiratorial li'l mind sees a pattern, where it is hard to finagle the system, precisely cuz things are now so g-d complex. I'm sure my Datsun 510 could burn every oz of scrap oil in my shop (in some dilution).... AND I'm pretty sure it got the mpg's of a Prius.... Even the inverter-as-backup-genset seems a bust, altho I will experiment more with that, partic to see if 2000-2500 rpm idles are truly nec.

Not salvage, shitty li'l machine shop, emphasis on little, next emphasis on shitty..... I bought two ventless gas heaters, and pert near asphyxiated on those.... grrrreat heat, but unbreathable air quality. I could only imagine burning waste oil.
I was hoping that, IF an engine could tolerate kerosene (via fuel injector cleaners), that it might tolerate other stuff as well. But you are saying that "if" may be incorrect. BUT, still and all, if not kerosene, it's burning sumpn ELSE, right? But, which may have been tested to be OK in engines.... but then mebbe not either!!
--
EA




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Existential Angst wrote:

Not usually. You can usually pull up the MSDS though.

The waste oil units burn CLEAN. They install just like a normal furnace. Vent stack and external air combustion.

The engine itself might. BUT the control items won't. O2 sensors get contaminated very easy.

--
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