my small engines is it ok not to use any of the
various stablizers? How long will the high
octane be safe to use w/o the stabilizer?
A couple decades ago, we used to have trouble
with gasoline going stale, long before the
So, I'd think stabilizer is a good idea. Unsure
the time frame, probably six months to a year.
I've had moment when an engine was needed, had
been stored with old gasoline. this being 1999
or so, before ethanol was mandated. Honda
generator, and needed for a power cut. The engine
started after a spray of ether on the air filter,
and then it ran fine after that. The fellow
wanted to put in new gas, so he sent his son
for gas. The only place that had electricity for
the pumps was far distance, and big line of cars
waiting to buy gas.
Frank Thompson wrote, on Tue, 02 Sep 2014 03:15:28 -0700:
Not sure where you are, but, in the states, we measure the anti-knock
rating using a combination of the research and motor method, and then
average the two, to come up with the anti-knock index, e.g., 87AKI.
It's rare for a small engine, I think, in the USA, to be designed for
a great anti-knock index than that "Regular". As you know, putting
a gasoline of higher anti-knock qualities than designed into *any*
engine which is both already running properly & not subject to excessive
heat and/or loads, can provide absolutely no positive value.
Summarizing that as saying that the octane rating is designed into the
engine and most "small engines" are designed for 87AKI here in the
states, why would you even *want* to put gasoline whose flame front
moves slower (so to speak) into an engine, unless it's designed for
On Tue, 2 Sep 2014 14:13:05 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
He is not concerned about octane ratings. If you read the post, you'd
see he mentioned it has no ethanol. Many small engines have long term
problems with ethanol and many of us are using gas without it.
It should be good for atleast 6 months.
No more than I use, I still get the gas without the ethanol and put in the
Stabil. That way I don't wory about it.
I have 3 of the 5 gallon containers and when two get empty I take them and
refill. Before I leave the house I put in the required ammount of Stabil. I
have a 5 kw generator that I start every couple of weeks, cahin saw may sit
for a long time and I never know when I may need to add some more gas to the
tank , so by having the stabil in all the gas I don't worry. I probably
average using about 2 gallons of gas a week. That would make my gas staying
around for 5 or so weeks in the summer, and lots longer in the winter as
from about Novermber to March I don't mow so the gas is not usually used
during that time.
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
And some of us are lucky enough to have more than one local vendor for
non-eth gas . I find it interesting that the town of less than 3,000
population where I live has non-eth available at multiple outlets , yet a
city of near a million <Memphis Tn> doesn't have a single one ...
That's owing to the emission requirements to meet ozone and other
pollution limits are much more stringent in the higher-population areas
owing simply to there being so many more sources in a confined area.
W/o the NOx-reduction of the ethanol blends, places like Memphis would
exceed those limits routinely and that costs them big bucks in loss of
The use of ethanol is mandated in some regions due to pollution and
air quality. Much of the areas are high population and lots of
traffic. That is an advantage of a small town far from the
interstates and congestion.
On Tue, 2 Sep 2014 14:13:05 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
Danny, the reason for using premium is that in many areas ONLY
premium is available without ethanol. Ethanol can cause problems in
seasonal small engines. Using high octane fuel will NOT cause problems
on these engines, whether 2 stroke, L-Head or OHV.
And you do not undersdtand octane.
Zaky Waky wrote, on Tue, 02 Sep 2014 17:22:28 +0000:
I apologize for missing the part about the ethanol being important,
and *not* the octane rating.
However, looking back at the OP that Frank Thompson wrote:
Since the octane rating of the fuel is *higher* than the engine was
designed for, we can *remove* the octane rating from the equation!
The original question more appropriately becomes:
If I use ... gasoline w/o alcohol in my small engines is it ok
not to use any of the various stabilizers?
How long will the ... gasoline be safe to use w/o the stabilizer?
The first sentence merely becomes almost meaningless, because all
he is asking is whether gasoline without alcohol is "ok" without
stabilizers. Since the engines were most likely designed with
gasoline without alcohol in mind, then of course they can be used
without stabilizers. Even if they were designed for fuels with
alcohol in mind, they can *still* be used without stabiliers.
So, the first sentence is almost meaningless since neither the
octane rating nor the dearth of alcohol has anything to do with
the engine, in practice.
So, the only question that matters is how long gasoline lasts in the can
before it "needs" stabilizers,and, this question has been hashed to death
Nobody really can give a definite time, and it matters greatly what the
storage (and weather) conditions are, but months is an appropriate gross
Anyway, I do apologize for not realizing the alcohol was the key concept,
and not the octane. However when you correct for the fact the octane
rating can't possibly have any effect on an engine which wasn't knocking
in the first place, and that the octane rating has nothing to do with
stabilization, then you get a different initial question.
The initial question merely turns into a question of how long gasoline
lasts before it needs stabilizers, and the answer varies, but it in terms
Echo says it can go bad in 30 days. The big problem is that ethanol
draws moisture, and that gums up carburetors and engines. In
particular, if there is any venting of a gas can or gas tank, water will
accumulate, depending on the humidity level and temperature fluctuations.
When the water content reaches 3/4 ounce per gallon, water and ethanol
will start to drop to the bottom. Besides causing corrosion and
varnish, it can wreck a 2-cycle engine because the water-ethanol doesn't
They recommend shaking before you pour. I can imagine another solution.
Store your gas can tilted so any water-ethanol is along one side of the
bottom. Draw gas with a siphon pump whose tube doesn't quite reach the
bottom. When the can is nearly empty, pour the remaining gas into a jar
and see if any water-ethanol settles.
I remember when it was common to see a little jar along a fuel line, so
you could drain any water that settled.
On Tue, 2 Sep 2014 03:15:28 -0700 (PDT), Frank Thompson
You mean like Sta-bil?
By alcohol you mean ethanol?
I have never heard that ethanol had anaything to do with the need for
Sta-bil, and I remember that gas got old, wouldn't start cars, etc. and
maybe even clogged carburetors long before ethanol was in use.
That's what sta-bil was meant to overcome and afaict, it does a good
job, so you should use it. If you use a lot, maybe you can buy it for
less in big containers.
Ethanol gasoline attracts moisture, and more moisture in the gasoline
makes it deteriotate faster (due to oxidation). Stabilizers are more
critical in ethanol enhanced fuels - and generally a different
stabilizer is recommended.
Fresh Non ethanol fuel, stored in a sealed container in a is generally
safe for at least 6 months without stabilizer. Left in an open
(vented) tank or carburetor cut that time in half.
I generally store both my lawn mower and snowblower with the carb
drained and the tank full of Shell Premium and have absolutely no
problem starting next season.. My old snowblower did not have a fuel
shutoff, so I could not drain the carb without running the tank dry -
and it was always a bit of work to get it started the first couple of
times -sometimes had to take the carb apart.
The chainsaw has a totally sealed (pressurized) tank - started just
fine after 2 full years not being used. (again, NO ethanol)
Old lawn tractor left sitting in a friend's driving shed for 2 years,
the gas STUNK and the carb was all gummed up - regular unleaded
On 9/3/2014 9:44 PM, email@example.com wrote:
I've found that hydroxide based oven cleaner
does a nice job for cleaning green carb parts.
Dissemble, put the parts in a spaghetti strainer.
Spray, wait a minute or two. Rinse, dry. Spin
cycle not recommended. Parts get lost. Ha, ha.
I just let all small engines run dry at the end of season. Store them
in tool shed. At the start of season fill tank up with fresh fuel, ~5
pulls it starts and run. Been doing this as long as I remember, no
serious problem. Of course I am crazy about regular PM. Feel, Inspect,
Tighten, Clean, Adjust, Lubricate. An old Chinese saying, "No trouble,
if you prepare ahead".
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