B and Q are doing a selection of wall hung *flueless* gas fires.
We had those tv ads a while ago saying how dangerous your gas fire was if the chimney was blocked. We are also warned about providing sufficent ventilation for gas fires.
Would someone be able to explain to a novice what is happening to the noxious fumes that we are warned about, when the gas fires is flueless?
A furnace probably runs >100k BTU/h. A water heater >60K BTU/H. A ventless heater is more likely 30K or less. [some are 5K] Less BTU=less combustion=less CO.
That said--- you can still kill yourself with CO if you put one in a space too small for it. A 30K in a small bedroom should kill you the first night.
Jim
These heaters have shut off sensors if oxygen gets too low or carbon monoxide is generated in excess. You can live with the carbon dioxide and water that complete combustion generates. Personally these heaters make me nervous as who wants to be sleeping if the safety overrides fail?
You breathe them, You hope the Oxygen Depletion and your Co sensors all work, you hope your house is loose enough to breath out the poisons induced into your home, or you don`t worry or think and call it the Flue if it affects you. But if you only run it a few hours a day in a non super sealed house it should be ok. Like running the gas oven or having all the stove burners on. I would not want one, there is to much indoor pollution anyway in winter, in a garage for short periods it would be ok, but Ng contains alot of water that will raise the humidity where these are used.
Also, it depends on what you mean by gas fires. There are ventless gas fireplaces that are not designed to provide heat, but mainly for visual appeal. Consequently, I would think they would use less gas, be less of a potential hazard and more common. Other units are designed to actually provide heat. Some states do not allow them because of safety concerns.
You need to do your own due diligence and figure out how comfortable you are with whatever gas fire you are talking about.
There are no noxious fumes from a properly-operating gas flame.
That there COULD be something dangerous is what gets some Chicken-Little types all exercised.
In the years before central heating was common, millions of families got along quite well, without mishap, by using gas space heaters. There were gas outlets in every room, much like electrical outlets today.
Before that, when gas lighting was the norm, the flames were actually DESIGNED to generate Carbon monoxide. That is, gas lights depended on incomplete combustion to generate a yellow flame rather than the complete-combustion blue flame like you see on today's gas ranges.
Isnt ventless outlawed in some or most of Canada?
Where do you get your information from? Or are you just guessing?
Probably one of the reasons life expectancy was far less in the old days ;)
Probably one of the reasons life expectancy was far less in the old days ;)
These fires have a catalytic converter which converts all harmfull gases into carbon dioxide and water vapour and they are said to be 100% efficient. How much water vapour it produces into the room they dont say.
Bill.1
-snip-
Actually infant mortality is what made it *appear* that folks died young 'in the old days'.
My 20K ventless does not steam up the windows in the room where it resides. If it is below 0F it runs most of the time. A shower in the adjacent bathroom -- or boiling a pot of pasta on the stove in the other adjacent room will steam up the windows.
Jim
All thats left is more Co and less oxygen, to much Co and yr dead, not enough oxygen and yr dead, and you think the built in sensors dont fail? There is a reason some localities have banned them, ill give you a hint, people have died using them. And I guarntee they wont make you feel better healthwise.
Ng contains alot of water
Is that the opposite of alittle water?
they'll be going out the 3 or 4 foot square vents the BG service bod put in when he came round for the anual service call wont they.
prolly as good at warming a room up as those open fronted fake coal gas fires with a fan to suck the gasses out a horizontal flue, mum's got one of them, looks nice but im sure room gets colder with it on due to the fan, and not very realistic with the sound of a small turbine whining away behind the grate.
A flueless gas fire was been fitted to a house refurb I was working on last week. I believe it had an output of 3kW. I guess that the 100cm2 vent that was installed will let more cold air in than the fire can heat.
Adam
W is the abbreviation for Watts in the US [most of the folks on alt.home.repair are American]. What does it represent there?
If you meant 3000BTU/H, the folks would do better to turn a burner on their range on. I have one that produces 10K BTU/H.
Maybe ventless are different in the UK than in the states. My 30K BTU/H ventless has no connection to the outside. It uses inside air for combustion. It produces less CO than my kitchen range with 4 burners and the oven going. And it is in a bigger room.
Jim
we have 2 vent less gas fire places. one upstairs, one down. had them for 8 years now. we also have 1 carbon monoxide meter within 10 feet of each fireplace. alerts have never gone off, though we could smell the gas. checked it two different times with a CO meter that gauged it at 2 which was in fact pretty good. what we have learned though is that these things...though very efficiant, are best run for no longer that 1 or 2 hours. in fact, the only time we really use them is for a type of instant heat when we walk in the door in very cold weather. the trick for the smell is the cleaning of the burner bar and logs. any dust whatsoever causes a distinct unpleasant smell. we use just windex to get the carbon gunk off the bars 2 times per season. roughly
25 hours of use causes a need for the burner to be wiped clean. downstairs also has a ceiling fan which really helps keeping the heat down. hope this helps.
To get a Co meter to alarm means you are in immediate danger since the alarmed setting is very high to prevent false alarms. It has to be above a certain ppm for a period of time. You are in danger long before it alarms, in long term exposure the danger point is very low.
Does your meter have a peak memory function , is that what you check, because if not with regular meters like the Nighthawk digital your are in danger long before it alarms. Even long term exposure to about 1/10 the standard alarmed setting is real bad for you, 0ppm Co is what is healthy, 20-50 for short periods made my neighbor sick, it was her furnace, the heat exchanger was shot with cracks in most all sections, it was poisoning her, slowly. It didnt set off the Nighthawk since the furnace cycled shorter then Nighthawks time frame of alarming and her house was loose, but she was sick. It was good the Nighthawk recorded Peak Co, checking the memory proved she had a serious issue, she got a new furnace the next day. Google, Health Risks of long term low level Co exposure. Its very serious.
Carbon monoxide is odorless, which is one of the reasons it's so deadly. You may have smelled unburned nat gas, or something else, but it sure wasn't the CO.
watts.
3000W = 10238BTU/hr
We just bought a set of ventless gas logs for the fireplace; 8kW (or
37000BTU/hr).HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.