Gas

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wrote in message TURTLE wrote:

This is Turtle.
You forgot that the U.S. Government has octane rating and this covers everything you say and burniability of the fuel. 87 Octane Gasohol or 87 Octane Gas have the same burniability as each other. If it was not the same it would have a less or more of a Octane rating on it.
TURTLE
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TURTLE wrote:

Rather pathetic, really.

Its more complicated than that.

More complicated than that too.

More complicated than that too.

Rather pathetic, really.
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TURTLE wrote:

Octane rating has nothing to do with the energy in the fuel. Ethanol has less energy per gallon than gasoline therefore you are getting less energy per gallon and should therefore not be willing to pay as much as you pay if you are buying all gasoline. You might, of course, choose the gasohol because you wanted to cheaply get the water out of your tank or because you think that other additives used to raise octane are a danger to the environment, but at least then you are making a choice based on something other than a misguided look at volumes.
--

Personally, I believe that 9/11 should have taught us the lesson that we
can't let these countries simmer endlessly in disillusionment without
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wrote in message TURTLE wrote:

This is Turtle.
I like your theory on Octane rating being different for Gasohaol and regular gas and you need to discuss this with the DOT of your state and have them change the Octane rating to reflect the less power from Alcohol gas than regular unleaded gas. I think they would be interesed in your theory here.
TURTLE
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TURTLE wrote:

Rather pathetic, really.

Nope, they realise what he said is correct.
The octane rating has nothing to do with the energy content. Its about what compression ratio it can be used at without predetonation etc.

Rather pathetic, really.
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says...

You need to look up what octane means.
It is the resistance to ignition value. It is NOT the amount of energy per volume.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
o |~> Dominique Cormann
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This is Turtle.
I don't study gas as a hobby but if the octane rating was all the same as you say here. I could run 87 octane gas in my Lexus LS-400 and not have to burn the 93 octane fuel. I can fill it with 87 Octane fuel and it don't knock but a turtle could out run me with it in the car. I put the 93 in it and it hauls ass. I look at what it does and not what it is suppose to prevent or prevent it from knocking.
TURTLE
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TURTLE wrote: ...

Did you follow the link I posted or google octane rating to actually see what it is?

What is available in the "high-test" pump is <more> than just additional anti-knock compound...
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that warm, secure feeling...
<http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/autos/octane.htm
...that comes from being hornswaggled*.
"Shell premium contains SIX TIMES the minimum required detergent agents!!!!!" which works out to a producer's cost of $0.004/gallon extra...
In addition to the FTC website, i urge you all to at least become passingly aware of the DOE's Energy Information Agency. <http://www.eia.doe.gov> .max *unless your owner's manual specs it, of course.
--
the part of < snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net>
was played by maxwell monningh 8-p
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TURTLE wrote: ...

Turtle, better check some more on what octane rating <really> is...it is <not> a measure of the specific energy of the fuel...there is no ratingof "burniability" even if there were such a word...
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/autos/octane.htm
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Duane Bozarth wrote:

various gasoline blends are compared to. Ethanol has a higher octane rating than the blends alone but a lower potential energy, so when buying on octane rating, the ethanol blend has less potential energy and therefore value, so it should be discounted.
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can't let these countries simmer endlessly in disillusionment without
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Dan_Musicant wrote:

Gasoline can vary in many ways. Octane is just one. Additives, age of the gas, cleanliness formula (winter vs. summer) etc. all make differences. Brands are not very different in NA as regulations and market forces tend to keep them the same.
My recommendation is simple. Only buy from stations that do a lot of business and buy the octane specified for your engine by the manufacturer or if the engine is old and starting to show signs that it needs higher go a little higher. (higher octane does not mean more power, better gas or better additives)
--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
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Addendum to Mr. Meehan's fuel purchasing rules:
1) Never buy gas first thing in the morning. Let the early birds have the best chance of getting the grunge from the bottom of the tank. Pickup pipes in the tanks don't draw from the top, you know. 2) Never fuel up at a station at the bottom of a hill, especially in rainy or snowy weather. Remember water flows downhill, and underground tank inlets aren't totally trustworthy. 3) The further from an interstate highway, the lower the price. And sometime the lower the quality. Shop warily when traveling. HTH
Joe
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Joe Bobst wrote:

While I agree with #2 and #3, both are for real. I would not worry about #1. First, as you may already know, the pickups are not at the very bottom, the are a few inches above it. The fuel and grunge below that (and most tanks do have grunge and water below that level) is called bottoms. Good dealers have the the tanks pumped out from time to time to keep the level low so it does not get in the pickups.
Morning is the best time for two reasons. First all the grunge has had all night to settle to the bottom, not yet steered up by pumping gas, and the gas is a little cooler and you get a little more for your money. Nether is really important in my book
BTW I would recommend passing on any station that is getting or just got a fuel delivery. That is when the grunge gets steered up for real.

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Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
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You might be surprised to discover how little :-)
How much would you save if a 10K gallon tank lives in 55 F soil and the air temp above it drops from 34 F in the afternoon to 26 F in the morning?
Nick
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--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
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Now you tell me. I've been getting up at 5 AM for the past 40 years just to top of my gas tank.
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As a poster above this message said: "Read the pump". Most pumps these days are temperature compensated. That cooler, denser gasoline that you try to get on a cool morning is adjusted at the pump to give you less. If it is hot the pump will compensate and give you a little more. Basically you are getting the same amount no matter what the temperature, as the temperature compensation adjusts the measurements to supposable supply the same amount of energy. You can't win in this game.
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snipped-for-privacy@ece.villanova.edu wrote:

Actually I remember some little scandal several years ago, when gasoline that used to be 60 degrees F when delivered was 76 degrees F when delivered. I know it was something like this, although I may not remember exactly the temperature figures. I believe I saw it in the Philadelphia Inquirer.
I now look at "Cubical Expansion of Liquids", CRC Handbook, page 2284 in the 43rd edition. Pentane is said there to be .001608, and petroleum (density .8467) according to that source gets .000955. I suspect gasoline, although it varies, is probably usually not far from at least one of these - although I suspect lower than the figure for pentane. This is volumetric coefficient per degree C of thermal expansion. Looks like 16 degrees F could make a difference of not far from 1 percent.
The way the newspaper story made it out, it appeared to be a scam by the refinery to deliver less gasoline to gas stations per gallon that they were paying for.
Now, as for temperature variations in an underground tank: I suspect that's substantially less than the variation in air temperature throughout the day. But I don't have any figures for that one. (On an average day in Philadelphia, the early morning low temperature is 9-11 degrees C cooler than the afternoon high temperature, depending on the time of year.)
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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Sounds more like a reporter with too much time. Did he suggest they deliver gas only in the winter and not the summer?
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