Garage Framing Question

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Hello,
I am converting my garage into a living room, and have a question about framing.
I have 11 foot ceilings, soon to be 10 foot once I add the floor. 7' is 2x4, and the bottom 3' is concrete block.
Of course, the block sticks out further than the 2x4. I need advice on how best to even this wall out. I want to add a 1x3 or 2x3 frame from floor to ceiling, and then drywall.
I've been told that 4" of insuation (R13) is enough, so I do not intend to bring out the 2x4 any further.
This new frame will be flush against my block, but there will be a 7"+ gap between the frame and the 2x4's.
Two questions:
(1) Will a 1x3 frame be strong enough to support 10' of drywall? Or do I need a 2x3?
(2) What do I do with the 7"+ gap between the frame and the existing 2x4's? Do I leave it alone, pack with more insulation ???
Thanks,
Chris
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On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 12:52:57 -0700 (PDT), wrldruler

Will you have a doorway passage EXIT from this area to the driveway?
Contact your local permit office.
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wrldruler wrote: ...

I'd question the absolute need to make the wall surface flat the whole way -- make the difference a "feature" instead would be one way.
On the specific questions -- unless you're in a very mild climate, I'd recommend since you've got the space anyway to add at least R-19. Energy costs are going nowhere but up so in the long run it'll pay and the incremental cost since you have the room is minimal. You'll definitely want some high-density insulation over that section of block wall, though, or you'll have a cold radiator behind the wallboard forever that will make it very uncomfortable living space in winters or require far more heating than it should (again, unless you're in a very temperate zone).
1x3's will be strong enough but on edge won't supply enough nailing profile and on face won't be rigid enough. Your choice really is to frame an interior wall inside the exterior if you're determined to make the wall one plane. Might be good place for metal studs on that inner.
Discussed insulation earlier...more is almost always better, particularly when it doesn't/won't cost anything more in construction than not.
--
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As for the added insulation, that depends on your climate. Very cold -- yes, but if temperate, little advantage.
As for the difference in thickness, you can make it in two sections. My house is what is known as a split entry or raised ranch. It is a very common style here and the lower level is down about 4' below grade with a concrete foundation. The most common finishing method is to frame the concrete section with 2 x 4 and leave the upper section with the 2 x 4 (or 6) as built. Then the top of the concrete is framed with 1 x 3 and a finished shelf is put on top. A little trim and you have a shelf on the outer wall. Paint or stain as desired.
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"wrldruler" wrote

Need 2x3 or 2x4 or it will be very awkward to nail the drywall to something as thin as a 1x3. Yes, it can be done, but it wont be easy and it may not be all that stable.

Where are you climate wise? Thats makes a big difference. You need to insulate the blocks in a cold climate (but in a hot one, not so much as the walls above). I had an apartment (town house) once with a finished garage a bit like this in each unit. They were not finished the same so I'll describe both.
Here's what he did in mine. He actually extended out the cinderblocks a little with some sort of false brick (about 1 inch thick it seemed) and ran a nice molding ontop of it. Then above he used 2 of the sections between the framing to make recessed book shelves. Behind it, he said he had 3 layers of the best 'thin board insulation' he could get. He then layered the inside with some wood that when painted looked lots like drywall. IE: it didnt look like cheap plywood just painted. The walls elsewhere were filled fat as he could with insulation (2 layers of R13? Not really sure) then mine had a nice wood paneling added on 3 walls and the 4th was false brick to the ceiling (the one against the house). Code note: Both had doors to the kitchen and an added door at the old front where the garage was. It was required there.
The other one also used the cinderblock to be a 'feature' but there he used drywall above (same inset book shelves and insulation) and below he used some premade wainscot stained wood panels mounted flush to the blocks. They were slightly higher so he made a little wood strip on hinges in 3ft sections that you could lift it up and the wiring was run through there with the outlets above. No you couldnt open them without a screwdriver. He used some simple brushed brass angle fittings like you might see on an oriental jewlrey box (toddler protection, possibly code required as well). Oh, where I had the full false brick wall, he had wallpaper above the wainscot lower section.
Lots of variations on what you can do!
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I live in Maryland, near the Bay and Ocean. So I guess our winters are in-between cold and mild.
So far, everyone I've talked to recommends framing out the block, making a ledge or shelf, and then drywall to the existing 2x4.
New question: Using the "ledge" technique, where would the electric outlets go. Do you leave the outlets up high, or do frame out with a 2x3 and use a 4x4 square box that is 1.5" thick?
We were going to eliminate the garage door, put in two large windows. I am going to add a sliding door to the backyard. Do you think code would require another door towards the front as well?
Thanks
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re: Do you think code would require another door towards the front as well?
I think the folks who are going to issue the permit would be best qualified to answer that.
re: Do you leave the outlets up high, or do frame out with a 2x3 and use a 4x4 square box that is 1.5" thick?
Sounds like either one would work. Again, the building code folks will tell you what is allowed in your area.
Just as an aside, a GFCI outlet won't fit in a shallow box, so if there is need for GFCI protection, plan accordingly.
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"DerbyDad03" wrote

True but he'll be fine, just may not 'require' a second door vice the large windows. Withthe patio door, he wont need a third one (has one leading inside the house now I am sure).

Interestingly enough, I recall another post from one in Maryland who checked this and like my state, there are no laws on how high or low an outlet has to be. You can put them in the ceiling if you want to <g>. We couldnt seem to find a state that had rules on that. Was about 4 months ago that thread cropped up?
Never hurts to check though!
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The following text appears in the 2002 NEC, and is marked as added or changed, so it may be a new requirement in that version:
NEC 210.52 "Dwelling Unit Receptacle Outlets." This section provides requirements for 125 volt, 15- and 20-ampere receptacle outlets. Receptacle outlets required by this section shall be in addition to any receptacle that is part of a luminaire (lighting fixture) or appliance, located within cabinets or cupboards, or located more that 5.5 ft above the floor.
Cheers, Wayne
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Wayne Whitney wrote:

That paragraph doesn't actually say anything about requiring any location; it simply says the section applies to a group of outlets including any that are _not_ over 5.5 ft above the floor. It doesn't prohibit them being above 5.5 ft; only that the section doesn't apply to them if they are.
--
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Yes, but that section is the section which requires receptacles outlets in most rooms at 6'/12' spacing, among other things. So the outlets over 5.5' tall don't count towards the required outlets.
Yours, Wayne
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and the 6/12/2 rule doesn't apply in a garage.
s
wrote:

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Steve Barker DLT wrote:

... But the garage isn't going to be a garage any longer...
--
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So right you are. I had to go back and read the OP.
s

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No, but this would be a definate 'ask the code guys in Maryland' since he's converting it and it may well apply to the new structure.
Also, much simpler to do it now when it's still just framing!
One of the drawbacks of my house is no outlets in either bathroom.
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yes they would. height is of no consequence on outlets.
s

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Umm, I just quoted the section of the National Electric Code which says that the required receptacle outlets have to be under 5.5' above finish floor.
Wayne
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Wayne Whitney wrote:

But isn't the code like the Ten Commandments? No penalty within the code for a violation?
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HUH!?

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AHHHHHHH..... I missed that. (both in your reply and in the book) I stand corrected...
s

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