Garage door torsion spring relocation project (Status = Not going well)

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On Wed, 28 Nov 2012 07:47:24 -0600, dpb wrote:

FINAL UPDATE (as a good net citizen).
I noticed you guys were unhappy so I simply stopped asking questions and just finished the job by immobilizing the bearing end plates and relocating & then securing the spring anchor plate.
I had to take down the tracks to get enough room to work and leveled them and bolted them back together when I was done.
It turns out the other garage door has the exact same construction as there is absolutely no wood above the doorway that is substantial.
There is no doubt of this now. It's clearly a steel-supported structure - where the wood is only bolted to the steel for the overhead storage area and nowhere else.
Only if you're interested, here are the final results.
1. Final view (ugly, Rube Goldberged, but relatively functional):
2. Closeup of the right bearing end plate support:
3. Closeup of the spring anchor plate new bearing from Dan:
4. Closeup of the spring anchor plate from below:
5. Closeup of the left bearing end plate support (for two doors):
6. A view of the newly relocated and reinstalled spring:
7. Looking up at the right bearing end plate new support:
8. Then spring anchor plate still bends - not much can be done:

No need to respond. I just want to close the loop as a courtesy to all that helped, and, also in case someone with similar problems wishes to learn the good, the bad, and the ugly.
Thanks for your help. I'm not sure why anonymity gets folks so angry - but - I've been on the net for decades, and have learned looooong ago not to sling mud. I thank you all for your advice - and I hope you realize I was responsive (until people got nasty) - and that I answered all your queries for more information - and I followed all the advice EXCEPT the ripping out of the walls.
In the end, it's clear as night and day the garage is NOT a wood-framed structure - and that the original garage door installers had the same problem that I did and they simply left the top foot of EVERY door unbolted.
I've rectified that. It's not pretty. It's not even fully functional - but it is MUCH BETTER than it was before!
For that, I thank you all!
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On Wed, 28 Nov 2012 07:47:24 -0600, dpb wrote:

FINAL UPDATE (as a good net citizen).
I noticed you guys were unhappy so I simply stopped asking questions and just finished the job by immobilizing the bearing end plates and relocating & then securing the spring anchor plate.
I had to take down the tracks to get enough room to work and leveled them and bolted them back together when I was done.
It turns out the other garage door has the exact same construction as there is absolutely no wood above the doorway that is substantial.
There is no doubt of this now. It's clearly a steel-supported structure - where the wood is only bolted to the steel for the overhead storage area and nowhere else.
Only if you're interested, here are the final results.
1. Final view (ugly, Rube Goldberged, but relatively functional):
2. Closeup of the right bearing end plate support:
3. Closeup of the spring anchor plate new bearing from Dan:
4. Closeup of the spring anchor plate from below:
5. Closeup of the left bearing end plate support (for two doors):
6. A view of the newly relocated and reinstalled spring:
7. Looking up at the right bearing end plate new support:
8. Then spring anchor plate still bends - not much can be done:

No need to respond. I just want to close the loop as a courtesy to all that helped, and, also in case someone with similar problems wishes to learn the good, the bad, and the ugly.
Thanks for your help. I'm not sure why anonymity gets folks so angry - but - I've been on the net for decades, and have learned looooong ago not to sling mud. I thank you all for your advice - and I hope you realize I was responsive (until people got nasty) - and that I answered all your queries for more information - and I followed all the advice EXCEPT the ripping out of the walls.
In the end, it's clear as night and day the garage is NOT a wood-framed structure - and that the original garage door installers had the same problem that I did and they simply left the top foot of EVERY door unbolted.
I've rectified that. It's not pretty. It's not even fully functional - but it is MUCH BETTER than it was before!
For that, I thank you all!
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Ooops. Sorry for the repost. The post didn't go through so I hit the resend, but, apparently it 'did' go through. Please ignore the repost.
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On Wed, 28 Nov 2012 07:47:24 -0600, dpb wrote:

FINAL UPDATE (as a good net citizen).
I noticed you guys were unhappy so I simply stopped asking questions and just finished the job by immobilizing the bearing end plates and relocating & then securing the spring anchor plate.
I had to take down the tracks to get enough room to work and leveled them and bolted them back together when I was done.
It turns out the other garage door has the exact same construction as there is absolutely no wood above the doorway that is substantial.
There is no doubt of this now. It's clearly a steel-supported structure - where the wood is only bolted to the steel for the overhead storage area and nowhere else.
Only if you're interested, here are the final results.
1. Final view (ugly, Rube Goldberged, but relatively functional):
2. Closeup of the right bearing end plate support:
3. Closeup of the spring anchor plate new bearing from Dan:
4. Closeup of the spring anchor plate from below:
5. Closeup of the left bearing end plate support (for two doors):
6. A view of the newly relocated and reinstalled spring:
7. Looking up at the right bearing end plate new support:
8. Then spring anchor plate still bends - not much can be done:

No need to respond. I just want to close the loop as a courtesy to all that helped, and, also in case someone with similar problems wishes to learn the good, the bad, and the ugly.
Thanks for your help. I'm not sure why anonymity gets folks so angry - but - I've been on the net for decades, and have learned looooong ago not to sling mud. I thank you all for your advice - and I hope you realize I was responsive (until people got nasty) - and that I answered all your queries for more information - and I followed all the advice EXCEPT the ripping out of the walls.
In the end, it's clear as night and day the garage is NOT a wood-framed structure - and that the original garage door installers had the same problem that I did and they simply left the top foot of EVERY door unbolted.
I've rectified that. It's not pretty. It's not even fully functional - but it is MUCH BETTER than it was before!
For that, I thank you all!
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I read through and saw many pictures. I was not able to give a good answer other than making sure the center bearing and end plates do not move. They do need to be fastened to solid blocking with good anchoring lags. I always drill a size of the shank and let the threads eat into the wood. I did a test and found that a lag just screwed into wood could pull out easier than if it was pre-drilled with a shank size bit that allowed thread bite. In some cases I have spanned over "un-blocked" areas with flat sheet metal to "catch " solid blocking. Then I attach the bracket to the sheet metal. Also the long shaft of garage doors is somewhat flexible. It will move up and down regardless of the tightness of the anchoring plates. Undoing and redoing those springs is tough. Counting the right turns and going in the correct direction for winding is critical too. On some doors you have a left and right wind. Also lubrication of wheels and bearings makes a garage door last longer and run smoother. john
"Danny D." wrote in message
On Wed, 28 Nov 2012 07:47:24 -0600, dpb wrote:

FINAL UPDATE (as a good net citizen).
I noticed you guys were unhappy so I simply stopped asking questions and just finished the job by immobilizing the bearing end plates and relocating & then securing the spring anchor plate.
I had to take down the tracks to get enough room to work and leveled them and bolted them back together when I was done.
It turns out the other garage door has the exact same construction as there is absolutely no wood above the doorway that is substantial.
There is no doubt of this now. It's clearly a steel-supported structure - where the wood is only bolted to the steel for the overhead storage area and nowhere else.
Only if you're interested, here are the final results.
1. Final view (ugly, Rube Goldberged, but relatively functional):
2. Closeup of the right bearing end plate support:
3. Closeup of the spring anchor plate new bearing from Dan:
4. Closeup of the spring anchor plate from below:
5. Closeup of the left bearing end plate support (for two doors):
6. A view of the newly relocated and reinstalled spring:
7. Looking up at the right bearing end plate new support:
8. Then spring anchor plate still bends - not much can be done:

No need to respond. I just want to close the loop as a courtesy to all that helped, and, also in case someone with similar problems wishes to learn the good, the bad, and the ugly.
Thanks for your help. I'm not sure why anonymity gets folks so angry - but - I've been on the net for decades, and have learned looooong ago not to sling mud. I thank you all for your advice - and I hope you realize I was responsive (until people got nasty) - and that I answered all your queries for more information - and I followed all the advice EXCEPT the ripping out of the walls.
In the end, it's clear as night and day the garage is NOT a wood-framed structure - and that the original garage door installers had the same problem that I did and they simply left the top foot of EVERY door unbolted.
I've rectified that. It's not pretty. It's not even fully functional - but it is MUCH BETTER than it was before!
For that, I thank you all!
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On 12/1/2012 12:11 PM, jloomis wrote:

This little fact has been proven by others as well... Always best to pre-drill the proper sized hole!
--
I'm never going to grow up.

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On Wed, 28 Nov 2012 07:47:24 -0600, dpb wrote:

FINAL UPDATE (as a good net citizen).
I noticed you guys were unhappy so I simply stopped asking questions and just finished the job by immobilizing the bearing end plates and relocating & then securing the spring anchor plate.
I had to take down the tracks to get enough room to work and leveled them and bolted them back together when I was done.
It turns out the other garage door has the exact same construction as there is absolutely no wood above the doorway that is substantial.
There is no doubt of this now. It's clearly a steel-supported structure - where the wood is only bolted to the steel for the overhead storage area and nowhere else.
Only if you're interested, here are the final results.
1. Final view (ugly, Rube Goldberged, but relatively functional):
2. Closeup of the right bearing end plate support:
3. Closeup of the spring anchor plate new bearing from Dan:
4. Closeup of the spring anchor plate from below:
5. Closeup of the left bearing end plate support (for two doors):
6. A view of the newly relocated and reinstalled spring:
7. Looking up at the right bearing end plate new support:
8. Then spring anchor plate still bends - not much can be done:

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On Wed, 28 Nov 2012 07:47:24 -0600, dpb wrote:

FINAL UPDATE (as a good net citizen).
I noticed you guys were unhappy so I simply stopped asking questions and just finished the job by immobilizing the bearing end plates and relocating & then securing the spring anchor plate.
I had to take down the tracks to get enough room to work and leveled them and bolted them back together when I was done.
It turns out the other garage door has the exact same construction as there is absolutely no wood above the doorway that is substantial.
There is no doubt of this now. It's clearly a steel-supported structure - where the wood is only bolted to the steel for the overhead storage area and nowhere else.
Only if you're interested, here are the final results.
1. Final view (ugly, Rube Goldberged, but relatively functional):
2. Closeup of the right bearing end plate support:
3. Closeup of the spring anchor plate new bearing from Dan:
4. Closeup of the spring anchor plate from below:
5. Closeup of the left bearing end plate support (for two doors):
6. A view of the newly relocated and reinstalled spring:
7. Looking up at the right bearing end plate new support:
8. Then spring anchor plate still bends - not much can be done:

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On Wed, 28 Nov 2012 07:47:24 -0600, dpb wrote:

FINAL UPDATE (as a good net citizen).
I noticed you guys were unhappy so I simply stopped asking questions and just finished the job by immobilizing the bearing end plates and relocating & then securing the spring anchor plate.
I had to take down the tracks to get enough room to work and leveled them and bolted them back together when I was done.
It turns out the other garage door has the exact same construction as there is absolutely no wood above the doorway that is substantial.
There is no doubt of this now. It's clearly a steel-supported structure - where the wood is only bolted to the steel for the overhead storage area and nowhere else.
Only if you're interested, here are the final results.
1. Final view (ugly, Rube Goldberged, but relatively functional):
2. Closeup of the right bearing end plate support:
3. Closeup of the spring anchor plate new bearing from Dan:
4. Closeup of the spring anchor plate from below:
5. Closeup of the left bearing end plate support (for two doors):
6. A view of the newly relocated and reinstalled spring:
7. Looking up at the right bearing end plate new support:
8. Then spring anchor plate still bends - not much can be done:

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Yikes. Sorry about all the posts. I had just recently added Tor, Privoxy, Vidalia, and Polipo and it seems to be affecting the NNTP news. Since I haven't posted in a while, I hadn't noticed the nntp user agent hasn't properly been torified.
Sorry about the duplictes. Please ignore.
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On 11/29/2012 2:02 PM, Oren wrote:

He's inside the wall and can't get out... :)
--
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On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 10:19:53 -0800, Oren wrote:

I saw that one before and admired it because it's external to the sheetrock - and - it's clear what it is.
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On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 09:41:16 -0800, Oren wrote:

I've never done structural work in my life. I've never ripped off wallboard - nor have I ever repaired the results.
Yet, I have made a project worse (and worse and worse) in my life by taking apart too much - and never putting it back together.
In short ... I don't really want to rip off all the wallboard because I'm afraid I'll never put it back and there will be an unsightly hole in my garage for years.
Of course, I had never replaced a torsion spring before either ... :)
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On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 12:43:43 -0800, Oren wrote:

How did you know?
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Anyone who doesn't think they are competent enough to remove and replace a piece of drywall in a garage should not be working on an overhead door tension spring. It's nuts to be buying steel plate, angle iron, bolts, etc when you DON"T KNOW WHAT'S BEHIND THE DRYWALL. I fully encourage people to do their own repairs, given that they possess a reasonable skill set. However given what's been demonstrated here and the real potential for something bad to happen, I suggest calling a pro.
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On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 14:42:01 -0800, Oren wrote:

Wow.
I try to change my nym once every few weeks ... for anonymity ... but I guess it isn't working.
What gives me away?
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Simple.... your true personality shines through. Stupidity of your caliber is nearly impossible to mask.
Why not drop the attempt at anonymity, wise up & follow the sage advice you're being given?
cheers Bob
ps how's the pile of oak doing?
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Oren-
I have a strong suspicion that Danny D. is "arkland"... the fool who turned a 50+ year old oak into a pile of logs to large to split just to satisfy his desire to "improve the view".
Now he is attempting to "repair" a faulty torsion spring installation but is afraid (?) to remove some drywall to really see what's going on. He thinks added angle iron or a steel sheet will do something to help. Because he is view obsessed (ugly, ugly, ugly comment) be prefers to add material rather than remove it, do the job right & replace / repair the finish.
Thank goodness he's an accountant & not a contractor, engineer or surgeon.
But....OTOH he did work through that backflow preventer restoration (albeit, slowly, painfully & ineptly).
He definitely gets some points for persistence but I'm not sure he's smart enough to learn. Stupid is really hard to fix.
OP (Danny D or arkland?)
Wise up....start listening to the guys in AHR who are generous enough to give you the benefit of their knowledge & experience. After your oak tree performance followed by this garage door thing...I'm convinced you're probably not worth the time.
cheers Bob
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On 11/26/2012 10:04 PM, Danny D. wrote:

Cut a piece of 3/4" plywood that is wide enough for the thing(s) you want to attach. Cut it full height of the wall face so you can fasten it to the double plate at the ceiling and the 2x that is pinned to the bottom of the I beam.
--


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On Sat, 01 Dec 2012 08:18:34 -0600, DanG wrote:

Effectively, that's what I did since there were absolutely no substantial studs anywhere near the garage door track upper ends.
Only I used a metal plate instead of the plywood.
The hardest part was measuring accurately because the ceiling sloped and the bearing end plate flag supports had been previously bent inward.
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