Garage door torsion spring broken ... and ... I have no questions! :)

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The wife screamed there was a gunshot in the garage and yelled at me to grab the grandkids and shoo them out the front door immediately.
This is what I found in the garage:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7329/10546499905_85e2064872_o.gif
The funny thing is, we've already covered *everything* here, on alt.home.repair; so, I have no additional questions for you guys!
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3682/10546730243_faccf1e6c8_o.gif
I'll give Dan at DDM Garage Doors a call in the morning, and, I'll have yet another garage door torsion spring repair under my belt.
I'll measure the springs, upgrade to heavier-duty springs (I'll aim for around 40K cycles), order new springs, winding cones, bearings, cables, hinges, etc. (as needed) - and I'll remove and install everything (probably in about an hour).
Thanks to all your past advice and help - there just isn't anything unknown about the DIY replacement of this particular garage door torsion spring repair. (Or so I hope.) :)
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On 10/28/2013 5:38 PM, Danny D'Amico wrote:

then i take it this isn't the one we spent so much time on not too long ago?
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On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 09:17:57 -0700, chaniarts wrote:

The one last time was this smaller single-spring garage door:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5489/10564820884_2729d6a11e_o.gif
This spring is the larger door twice it's size, right next to it.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7329/10546499905_85e2064872_o.gif
The real problem last time had nothing to do, per se, with replacing the torsion spring with an upgraded spring and new bearings.
The problem then was that there was NOTHING holding either end flag in place, nor anything under the center support ... so, the entire setup had to be jury rigged because the new heavier longer stronger spring caused a greater load on the unsupported components.
That problem was a one off.
But, it included taking apart the entire garage door setup more than a few times, so, by now, simply replacing two torsion springs should be a breeze (since I'll just go back to the old threads for the DIY details).
Thanks for all your help in the past!
Now I know exactly when the Huckleberries are in season, without having to ask!
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On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 11:24:16 -0700, Oren wrote:

I did the best I could.
The one good thing is that the right end flag of this large door is well anchored, since I did that last time when I fixed the smaller door end flag:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3669/10615953186_9fa9cbf2e2_b.jpg
But, the left end flag is just swaying in the breeze, because it has nothing under it. But, luckily, this center support doesn't sway because we have TWO springs (which counteract the twisting forces):
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2813/10615955516_54cd689400_b.jpg
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On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 00:38:17 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico

Is this really a torsion spring, or is it a flex spring that has been wound up in to a coil?

Don't forget to tie something so it doesn't come loose and spring back in your face. I never understood exactly what to tie.
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On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 15:06:34 -0400, micky wrote:

Yes, it's a torsion spring, so, AFAIK, there's nothing to "tie". (Maybe you're talking about extension springs?)
The 18-foot long 1" diameter torsion rod is what keeps the torsion spring from killing you when it breaks.
BTW, the total costs in upgraded parts & shipping was around $150: Torsion Spring & Cone: 2"ID, 0.243"thick, 35.25"long SPB-243-35-25L Torsion Spring & Cone: 2"ID, 0.243"thick, 35.25"long SPB-243-35-25R Bearings 1" Freeway Heavy Duty 2"OD BE-100 Shipping Total = $150
The old springs were only 10,000 duty cycle, while these (longer and thicker) springs are 41,000 duty cycle, so, they should last almost 30 years, used four times a day, every day.
BTW, this would have been a 1:1 replacement of the old springs: Torsion Spring & Cone: 2"ID, 0.225"thick, 24.25"long SPB-225-24-25L Torsion Spring & Cone: 2"ID, 0.225"thick, 24.25"long SPB-225-24-25R
But, those springs would only last about 7 years, used 4 times a day.
PS: I guess there is one question. I hate waste. Q: What can I do that's useful with the OLD unbroken spring?
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On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 00:08:42 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico

No, not extension springs. I should have been clearer, but I was talking then about when installing the spring, not about storing it.
In your picture, especially the close-up, what is the role of the coil spring? It's either two springs with 3 or 4 inches in between, or one spring that has broken in two.

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On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 23:40:19 -0400, micky wrote:

Heh heh. That's a broken spring.
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3682/10546730243_faccf1e6c8_o.gif
The spring is attached at both ends so neither end can move. When you wind a spring 7-1/2 turns, it "grows" by the thickness of 7-1/2 coils. Plus, you manually stretch it outward another coil thickness to prevent binding.
If your wire gauge is, say, 1/4 inch, then that's about 8 coils (roughly) that the spring will expand when wound and set. That's about 2 inches that the spring grows.
Since the spring is bolted down on both ends, when it breaks, there will be that distance between them.
In my picture below, the spring on the left is broken. The spring on the right is intact:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7329/10546499905_85e2064872_o.gif
These are the replacement springs from DDM Garage Doors (which arrived only one day after they were shipped):
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7442/10578548715_01e0f14be0_b.jpg
You'll notice the new (upgraded) springs are black (galvanized isn't worth anything, in reality); one winding cone has red paint on it (the RHW spring); there is a blue line painted straight (which will coil 7 times); and that the dimensions are painted on it, which are 35-1/4 inches long, with a wire gauge of 0.243 inches.
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Keep it hanging up on a nail in your garage. It is cheap insurance that neither of your new matched springs will fail, because you could use the spare as a replacement in the event of a break and not be trapped without a spring.
Otherwise, put it out at the curb on garbage day and the recyclers that pick up scrap metal will probably take it. Or, if there is a place that buys scrap metal handy, take it there.
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On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 17:37:54 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@sbcglobal.net"

I took a fire-damaged stove to the city recycling place, and before I could get up to the gate, a guy stopped me. He was waiting there just for people like me. Maybe he was even willing to pay me something for it, but since I was going to dispose of it, I just gave it to him and he put it in his pickup and later sold it to a metal recycler.
I sold a sorted pick-up load of copper, aluminum, and steel scrap to a junk yard a couple years ago, but I don't remember how much they paid for any of them.
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On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 6:41:43 PM UTC-7, micky wrote:

neither of your new matched springs will fail, because you could use the s pare as a replacement in the event of a break and not be trapped without a spring.

pick up scrap metal will probably take it. Or, if there is a place that buy s scrap metal handy, take it there.

I went to all the trouble to pack up a bunch of aluminum and other metal ju nque from and took it to the local city recycling place (contracted out). Guess what they wanted to pay me. $0.35!!! I demanded it back, took it ou tside, and dumped it in the free bin. So much for an hour of my time.
HB
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On 10/29/2013 9:49 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:

aluminum and other metal junque from and took it to the local city recycling place (contracted out). Guess what they wanted to pay me. $0.35!!! I demanded it back, took it outside, and dumped it in the free bin. So much for an hour of my time.

I've found different yards handle things differently. One place, I'll never go back. Always got under paid. Another yard is generous, a third one is some where in the middle.
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wrote:

by pick-up, I meant pick-up truck, that carried up to a ton probably, though the loosely piled metal weighed far far less than that.

The copper was the most expensive and I'm vaguely recalling that we got $40 for that. The steel was the most plentiful, and maybe we got $50 for that. There was not a lot of aluminum, but maybe we got $15 for it, a tolal of 105. I think the total was more like 140.
This was from a small building that was being torn down. The copper was mostly from the radiant heating pipes, in baseboards along the social hall. Maybe 100 feet of it. And electric wires, still with insulation. The rest was miscellaneous.
At the combination junkyard/scrapyard, where I had also gone to buy parts for my car, they removed the copper and weighed that. Maybe they had a factor to account for the aluminum fins that were still on. Same with the aluminum. Then they weighed the truck, removed the steel, and weighed the truck again.
http://trustwaymetal.com/category/scrap-metal/ how to recycle refrigerators, water heaters, stuff found on the side of the road. Peeking at these pages, none of them look like a very good idea for someone who has a real job.
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On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 17:37:54 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@sbcglobal.net"

Or before garbage day, to give people the maximum amount of time to see it. Although around here and at my friend's in the city, I don't think there are any recyclers patrolling. It's just by chance that people who want the stuff sometimes see these things.

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On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 21:41:43 -0400, micky wrote:

One time a friend gave me a beer keg setup, from which I used the carbon dioxide tank and regulators for my home made soda fountain.
The wife didn't like the aluminum keg in the garage, so I took it to the recyclers, and, guess what?
They wouldn't even take it. Said something about it being against the law.
So, on my way out, I asked some guys who could barely speak English unloading a pickup if they wanted it, and, they took it right out of my hands.
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On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 21:43:46 -0400, micky wrote:

Well, it sure cost a fortune to ship the new springs, so, they must be HEAVY!
So, it's worth something, to a recycler, in steel.
I guess I'll just throw it in the recycling bin.
I *might* try to again remove the cones, just for the practice, but, the last time I tried that, I failed miserably.
There's a really good *reason* most homeowners buy their torsion springs with the cones already on them!
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On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 02:31:20 +0000, Danny D'Amico wrote:

UPDATE: They arrived today ... but I'm still waiting for the other parts.
The cost to ship was almost exactly one dollar for pound!
There's something gorgeous about a tight set of springs!
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7442/10578548715_cc0a06e739_o.gif
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On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 13:32:45 -0700, Oren wrote:

Hi Oren, I'm a bit confused by your question, because, I don't think it matters what color the huckleberries (um, I mean, springs) are.
We actually covered this at one point in the old DIY thread. Painted colors are, essentially, an old wives tale, which, like all half truths, has some merit, but enough fiction so as to actually be meaningless in the end.
What I mean by that is that, sure, *some* companies use, say, gold paint for spring size 0.225; and, say, green paint for size 0.243; and, say, blue paint for size 0.250 (wire diameter, in inches).
This is the "truth" part of the old wives tale.
The problem is that there is *no universal color convention*. So, while a guy who owns his own garage door repair business knows all *his* 0.250 springs are painted blue, the actual color on someone elses' springs may use an entirely different color convention.
The color only means something to *him* because, to him, especially when time is money, he knows his previous (now broken) spring was painted gold, so he can then replace one of his old (gold) springs with the same color (gold), since he would know that his springs followed one particular color convention.
Since his time means his money, he can match gold-for-gold, and he doesn't have to measure anything. He saves a few minutes. Plus, even if he measured, he has a doublecheck (nothing wrong with that).
So, for FOUR good reasons, spring color is meaningless to me: 1. There is no color standard; so, to rely on color is folly. 2. I measured my spring wire diameter; so, I have no need to rely on color. [and most important] 3. I'm UPGRADING my wire diameter, so, I'd never match color anyway [and, besides] 4. My springs are so old that there is no color paint visible anyway.
Note: The "red" used for the bolts on the winding cones "supposedly" means "danger"; but, again, anyone relying on paint to tell them what's dangerous doesn't really understand what they're doing.
Likewise, the red on stationary cones is often used to indicate right-hand threads; however, again, anyone relying on the color of a cone to tell them the direction of a thread doesn't really understand what they're doing.
Color paint is fine as a doublecheck; but not as a primary indicator of anything.
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On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 09:19:26 -0700, Oren wrote:

Yeah. Everyone focuses on the color. Even if there *was* a standard, the springs I chose are a wholly different size, so, the original color (if it even could be ascertained), wouldn't have mattered.
BTW, I complete the job, twice, today, before taking the grandkids out for trick or treating, and, then heading out to an adult gettogether.
I have to complete it one more time tomorrow. gnite...
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On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 09:19:26 -0700, Oren wrote:

Just to be clear, there "is" a standard color code: http://www.dasma.com/PDF/Publications/TechDataSheets/CommercialResidential/TDS171.pdf
It's just that nobody really follows it; and, even if they did, it's hard to tell what color a spring is after being on a door for ten years.
For example, what color is my old spring painted splotch?
Is that splotch in the middle of both springs tan? gold? yellow?
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3705/10615937585_f851b2867e_b.jpg
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