Furnace Installation....Reasonable price???

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Hello, I am located in Ottawa, Canada. We are thinking of replacing our 20 yr. old furnace. The old furnace works but we recently had a couple of service calls and thought best to start looking at replacement. Yesterday we were quoted a price of $5000 Canadian dollars (around $4300 US) for a replacement furnace. The new furnace will be a high efficiency Carrier Infinity 96 (dual stage heating, variable speed DC motor, 5 yr parts warranty and a lifetime heat exchanger warranty). This was quoted by a reputable and large company with offices across the province. I was wondering if this is a reasonable price. Thank you.
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The Carrier "96" is only 96% efficient on their smallest 38000 input btu model the rest of the infinity line are apx 94-94.5%, a deceptive marketing ploy. With VS DC get the 10 yr warranty or dont get it , even though its redesigned by GE they may cost 600$ US when it breaks, but with a 10 yr I would do it. Price, nobody can see your install but im quoted 3200 US apx 60000 btu unit with a fancy thermostat. My install is easy. Many others are 94.5%, Armstrong even has a stainless steel heat exchanger. Was a load calc done in writing
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Hello, Sorry, I forgot to mention that it will be a 100,000 BTU unit. The load calculation was done (but not in writing). The existing furnace is 80,000 BTUs. The salesperson mentioned that for our house (2700 sq.ft) the 80,000 BTU unit will suffice but it would be better to go to the next higher BTU unit. The price differential between 80,000 and 100,000 is only around $200.
snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

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You want to be careful with that. I've been looking for a new furnace recently too, and in my reading have learned that oversizing a furnace will not only cost more initially, it can also make the house have uncomfortable hot & cold spots, the furnace will cycle on and off more quickly and more often which will shorten its life cycle.
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wrote:

Why in the world would you want to go to a larger size?? Was the old furnace not keeping up? Are you adding on to the house? You said the old furnace was twenty years old, was it a 90% furnace? If it was an 80% and was heating the house well, you could probably go SMALLER!! You do not want to over size a furnace. For the best in fuel efficiency you want the furnace to size the furnace to run constantly at the coldest days of the year. Over sizing the furnace will cause shorter run times and higher gas bills. Here in North Dakota we take out high BTU furnaces all the time and install smaller units. .One in particular we took out a 100,000 BTU Lenox and put in a 60,000 BTU Ruud mod furnace and it heats the house fine. I just replaced the furnace in my dad's house and put in a 75,000 BTU, 2400 square foot home. In my home I removed a 80,000 BTU and put in a 60,000 BTU Ruud mod. I would have gone smaller yet, but Ruud does not build a mod smaller than the 60,000 BTU. Greg
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By my spec sheet for Infinity, and im a homeowner only , a 60000 infinity out putting 57000 on high could be right for you, but you will only know after a load calc and your units apx present output. Any future insulating upgrades should also be considered now.
Only one Carrier Infinity or Bryant [same] is 96+%, the smallest least sold unit, the 040-14, 37000 out put btu. The rest are 94.1 they just added apx 20lb more metal to the exchangers on the 040. A BS marketing ploy for advertising only as they could have done this for all the units, but they save 20$ a unit, just more marketing BS to learn about.
Comfort is even heat oversizing wont help.
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wrote:

Is that really true?? Say his old one was 80% When his old one was rated at 80000 wasn't that AFTER they deducted the 20% loss of heating power.
Don't they rate the furnace on output and not on how much fuel they burn? I have no experience with this, but that's what I would do.
I'm sure they assume the furance is clean and well adjusted when they rate it at 80,000, but I don't think they would rate it at anything other than 80% efficent if that is what it was.
(Or maybe they don't assume anything Perhaps they rate the furnace by measuring it's output???. Again, I don't know. This is a question.)

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I have never seen furnaces rated on output BTU, there may be a rating on the label on the furnace that lists both. If I go to the wholesaler and ask for a furnace I ask for input BTU, not output. Greg
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If he didnt show you the load calc I bet he didn`t do one. I don`t think you can do it without writing it out, and you should demand a copy. If 80000 worked at your coldest days keeping you at 70f without running 24x7 then 100000 is much more than you need or want An 80000 btu unit , your old unit, say its 80% efficient put out 64000 btu, but it may be much less, 60% efficient, poorly sized ducts, dirty heat exchanger, AC coil, burner not running right etc etc. so it could be 48000 or less output for example, mine was 50%. An 80000 btu infinity at 94.1% actual [not 96] is 49000 on low fire and 75000 high fire btu, so depending on what your unit really outputs and an honest load calc in writing, an 80000 infinity could be way oversized since it is more efficient. A 100000 infinity is 94.1% efficient not 96, outputs 94000 high 61000 low fire btu. Oversize and you won`t be as comfortable if you consider it goes to high fire after a few minutes in standard settings, it will heat you faster unevenly. I went from 100000 btu to 47-74000, finally I got a written load calc it was 50000 btu, I heat a bit uneven and am oversized as I never need my second stage even at -20f with 30 mph winds. My second stage is good for when I come home from set back temps. But I will go smaller on my next unit soon. You need to learn more on when the second stage is used, 1st stage should be lower for milder days with second needed only when it can`t keep up, unfortunatly I think Carrier comes to second after like 5 minutes, but im not sure. Oversizing is common.
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On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 08:46:39 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (m Ransley) wrote:

Really? Then I guess I would be wrong. Sorry.

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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

Now Ottowa may get cold, but unless you have had problems with your heater not keeping up, you do NOT need a bigger furnace. The guy is not up do date, to be polite. A larger furnace is always, always, less efficient when its output is not needed. As a matter of fact, if they are quoting input btu's, you could get by with a smaller furnace, although I don't think that would be wise in Canada, unless you are counting on Global Warming..
With furnaces bigger is not better. Get a real heat load calc done.
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So they could be quoting either input or output?
When I said "Sorry" I thought one person had agreed with m Ransley, but both posts were from him, so it only counts as one. :~)

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mm yes they are discussed on input btu, which was great when everything was 80%
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On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 04:48:27 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (m Ransley) wrote:

Thanks for setting me straight, you and Greg. I didn't want to confuse anyone and I hope I haven't.
I'm very glad to get this straight myself because I'm going to need a new furnace myself someday, and yet I can't get myself to start shopping as long as the current one works. Yes, I'll regret this when the time comes, but at least now I won't waste one cycle of shopping by confusing what the btu rating is for.
Yes, I can see how that would be just fine when everything was 80%.
but now that I know, it's not much harder to multiply the input and multiply by the percentage.
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Last year Carrier Infinity 2 stage VS DC motor furnace installed by Direct Energy cost 4100CA$. + new Aprilair 600 humidifier 250$ installed. + GST Plus 300$ Endbridge rebate. Plus expecting more rebates as I did home efficiency audit before installing furnace, and submitted results just now. If you go with DirectEnergy, you have to pray that they will send you a good crew (they have many, and some of them have no clue what they are doing). My old furnace was 120BTU, new is 100BTU - more than enough for my 3700sq feet home + basement. A year ago I was quoted difference in price between 100,000BTU furnace and 120,000BTU furnace around 75$.
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We have a fairly well insulated 1800 Sq Ft home in upstate NY and have a 80,000 BTU Lennox pulse furnace. We have no problem keeping the house warm on the 20 below days but do have issues with the time required ( 3 hrs at least) bringing it back up to 68 degrees after a 60 degree nighttime setback. On cold days we go to manual and little setback.
wrote:

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On 16 Dec 2005 05:35:31 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

You need to run as fast as you can from this idiot company. Upsize the furnace? Ask for the load calcs on paper and have him (in detail) explain why he wants to upsize it. It might be fun to watch the entertainment. Go find a real company that knows what the hell they are doing. This guy wouldnt know a load calculation on your home if it hit him on the head. Keep in mind. Load calcs take time done correctly. If you want one from me, it AINT free. It is included after a signed contract and deposit is paid. I dont do load calcs so the customer can hand over my work to his el cheapo bidder. Bubba

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I am also looking to install a furnace, as well as new A/C unit.
I have received quotes to install a new furnace and A/C unit at our house and wanted to get a sanity check on the price.
The load calc indicates a need for a 120,000 BTU unit and a 4 ton A/C. The units would replace a 120,000 BTU that was original to the house (1982) and a 3 1/2 ton A/C that was also original to the house (1982). Since the house was built, there is an additional 300 sf or so, with a total of almost 3,300 sf of space.
There is a fair amount of work to be done in connection with any installs, including a lot of venting/piping for the furnace and the A/C, as well as lining our chimney to handle only the hot water heater. In addition, we will certainly require some damper adjustments.
We have been quoted $6,500 for an install of a Carrier 58 MVP 120 and $6,300 for an install of a Carrier 38 TDB (16 SEER).
These prices seem high, but they are actually lower than pricing we received on comparable (equivalent?) Bryant equipment.
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Never heard of a TDB (16 SEER) model before.....
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wrote

If its the one Im thinking of, they were only sold in Mexico up till recently. Its the southern version of a YDB unit. Cant wait till all those start falling out of warranty..LOL

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