FS Six 20A outlet shop electrical panel, each outlet protected

[Ignoramus29737]

For Sale is a panel of 6 20A outlets. Each outlet is individually protected with a separate breaker!

You run a single circuit to your shop (say 30-40A 220V with neutral), with one breaker in the main panel, connect it to the panel I am selling, and voila, you are done.

This is a very cheap way to have a lot of protected 20A outlets, compared to alternatives (buying electrical boxes, premium 20A outlets, subpanel, many breakers etc). Nice for a shop where you have a lot of tools that need to be plugged in.

This is a pull from a large 5 kvA working UPS. I have another one, which I will keep for myself.

$25 plus shipping (maybe $10 or so) takes it. Local pickup is free (Chicagoland).

i

[Ignoramus29737]

my site was down for a while, it is back up again.

i

[Jeff P.]

Your site was still down when I tried it at 11:11pm central time.

[Ignoramus29737]

it is up now

[John Lovallo]

[tom]

With all the problems I've had and others trying to get to the site, good thing this is a one time sale. ;)

later,

tom @

[Ignoramus15794]

It should be up now. :) I am using that site as a development site for my main website

(my domain), so, sometimes it is down if I mess up some apache configuration.

i

[tom]

Noticed the PR6, very nice.

Who hasn't been there before.....geez.... :)

later,

tom

[Ignoramus15794]

My email is ichudov AT algebra DOT com, or ichudov AT yahoo DOT com.

Will be happy to sell it to you.

i

[Mr Fixit eh]

No offence to the OP, but this is an extremely dangerous and not-code-compliant device.

1. Soldered connections are not acceptable for AC;
2. Uninsulated terminations;

I can't tell for sure, but I don't think these breakers are designed for 20A AC loads.

Even if this were a code-compliant device, it would be unsafe to use this with any less than 120A overload protection at the main panel and

1/0 AWG copper conductors. *Each* of those 20A receptacles can draw up to 20A for a total of 120A.

The OP could be held liable for any injury, death, or damage that ensues from the use of this device. Kudos for creativity, but it should be destroyed immediately.

Mr Fixit eh

[Greg Menke]

I can't speak to code issues, but I've routinely seen both #1 and #2 in plenty of unmodified, UL listed power strips both high and low quality, and in other devices as well.

Gregm

[Ignoramus15841]

One has to wonder though, how come they were acceptable in a big expensive UPS that was sold to the government (Clary UPS).

They say "20" on them.

You can put them on different legs of a 220V circuit, and protect the circuit with adequate circuit breaker.

i

[Mike Marlow]

Not sure about that for things like this. This is not house wiring.

Didn't they have 20A breakers on them?

How many circuit breakers do you have in your panel? Add up the load total of all of those breakers. It's very common for that to total more than the

200A or whatever is coming into your house. As long as the device is protected by a 20A breaker and #12 wire, it's perfectly safe. Remember - the breaker in your panel protects the wire. The wire is rated for a certain level of current. It just does not matter what is attached to the other end. Think of this - by code you can put 12 devices on a piece of #12 wire on 20A breaker. By your logic, I'd need a 240A breaker and some nasty sized wire for that circuit. Sorry - but you were thinking about this incorrectly.

Not if he didn't manufacture it. If he's just selling it he's no more liable for it than if you sell a car and someone dies in it from some defect. Even if he did build it, his liability may be quite small. If the device is UL listed, you're point is even less valid. There's a lot of talk here about liability for this and for that - even to the point of people claiming that one can be held liable for posts in this forum. Bull. It's always best to check with a lawyer first before making these statements.

[Rick]

Where in the NEC does it prohibit soldered connections?

[Ignoramus15841]

They did.

The sensible thing to do for this panel would be to have a 40 A 220V circuit for this panel, protected at the main panel by a suitable breaker.

As a former student of business law, I am highly doubtful that I would be found liable if a user used this panel in an illegal manner (contrary to electrical code). I did not make it and I did not alter it. Everything is possible, but the possibility of a legal liability seems to be very remote. Besides, this panel is highly unlikely to cause any damage as long as its back is enclosed in some sort of metal protective enclosure.

i

[Rick]

No offence to you, but please look at your breaker panel. Does the main breaker current rating equal the sum of all the individual breakers?

[Ignoramus15841]

Furthermore, to put 20a power on each outlet, all one needs is a 60A

220V circuit with neutral. #6 wire should be perfectly adequate for that. I recently put a subpanel into my garage and put it on a 60A breaker.

Since no one actually needs full 20A use of all six outlets, 40 amps

220V should be more than adequate. That would be equivalent to 80A use at 110V.

Yep, think of a typical subpanel. Sum of the capacities of its individual circuits usually exceeds the capacity of the breaker that the subpanel is on, on the theory that it is highly unlikely that all circuits would be loaded at the same time.

There is an elaborate formula/method for calculating whether the circuits exceed capacity. I am not familiar with its details, but exceeding the main breaker by even more than 150% is often, if not usually, acceptable. It depends on how many loads are truly continuous. Shop outlets do not count with the same "weight" as does AC or electric dryer or a range.

i

[Rick]

And how many 15A receptacles do you have on one breaker?

[Mike Marlow]

This is the second or third time you've said this and it's just wrong. There is no reason it cannot be on a #12 wire protected by a 20A breaker. It's no different than your house wiring.

[Ignoramus15841]

You are right that it CAN be on a 20A circuit. It does not mean that doing that is optimal for someone with a home shop (which is where, I think, this panel fits best). That would limit the number of simultaneously running devices. Think about someone running a compressor, a dust collector, a shaper with a vacuum attached to some strategic spot. When I think about circuit selection for this panel, with a shop like that in mind, I think that 40A 220V would be best. Any more is a waste, but having less would run a risk of not being able to power up a fancy shop in the most effective manner.

30A 220V is probably almost just as good as 40A and can be done with #10 wire, I believe. i