Frozen well pump - help!

[FragileWarrior]

Bear with me here, I might have some of the terminology wrong:

I water my horses from an outside well that's powered by an electric pump down in the well. The "pump" that's frozen is the pump unit that's at ground level, not the electric one down in the well. At least I HOPE it's not the one down in the well...

Normally, when using the water, I hook up the hose to the ground level "pump" (I don't know what else to call this part), lift the handle up and then flip the switch to start the electric pump and pump the water. After I'm done filling the troughs, I put the "pump" handle down and shut off the electric.

Yesterday, there was an ice block in the hose so I shut off the electric, detached the hose BUT I FORGOT TO PUT THE PUMP HANDLE DOWN. An hour later, when I got back with the thawed hose, everything at the "pump" was frozen solid. The handle is frozen in the up position and won't budge. No water will come out when the electric pump is on.

I did try to thaw the ground level pump with a small propane torch for almost an 45 minutes. I thought the only block must be in the top of the ground level pump since no water would have been pushing upward from the well without the electric running, right? But I had no luck. It did cross my mind that parts that weren't receiving direct heat were refreezing faster than I could keep them thawed. What do I need to do to thaw this out? We're due to be in a deep freeze here for another week at least. Do I need to call in professional help? Who do I call? A plumber?

Thanks for any help and suggestions.

Giselle (obviously a city girl gone bad)

[Edwin Pawlowski]

"FragileWarrior" refreezing faster than I could keep them thawed. What do I need to do to

Since you left water in the outer pump, there would be water in the line from the pump back. Can the pump be removed? If so, take it off and take it inside to thaw and you can then work on the rest of the piping if need be. It is also possible that the freezing cracked the pump housing and it will not work or will leak.

[FragileWarrior]

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in news:4Kkxh.41362$ [e-mail]:

Oh, good grief.

I have no idea if the pump can be removed.

Please tell me I didn't damage the electrical pump down in the well. PLEASE.

What a nightmare. Especially since when I was removing the hose I made a mental note to put the handle down and THEN FORGOT ALL ABOUT IT. *groan*

[RBM]

I'm not getting the setup. It seems like if you had a deep well (submersible) pump, you wouldn't need one at ground level. It may just be a shallow well pump, In any event, if you allowed water up the pipe and into the pump housing, if probably froze at the top of the pipe and in the housing. If you can do it yourself, do as Ed suggested with the pump. The pipe feeding the pump may be frozen near the surface as well and need the torch. Also be careful not to drop that pipe down the well. Tie a rope to it before you disconnect it. If you can't do it yourself, I'd call well people first,before plumbers

"FragileWarrior" down in the well. The "pump" that's frozen is the pump unit that's at

[FragileWarrior]

"RBM" wrote in news:8%kxh.938$ [e-mail]:

Right. I didn't know the right words. Someone mentioned the piece at the ground level is a riser spigot.

I did the torch thing until my legs froze off last night. I don't think my torch was big enough to do anything but thaw a localized area.

I'm going to make one last ditch effort by setting up a sawhorse/tarp house around the spigot and put some heat lamps out there. If that doesn't work, then a well repairman will be summoned.

Thanks.

[RBM]

Now you're cookin, (figuratively) that makes more sense. The tent idea sounds good. I hope you're not in Chicago where it's supposed to be 30 below. Good luck

"FragileWarrior" > (submersible) pump, you wouldn't need one at ground level.

[Jack]

On Feb 4, 5:33 am, FragileWarrior down in the well. The "pump" that's frozen is the pump unit that's at

You apparently have a submersible pump with a ground level antifreeze spigot, Which drains when you put the handle down, which you forgotand therefor it froze. You need to just thraw the pipes out in however manner you can. An electric heater wire made for just such , might do the trick. But just thaw it out and then remember to drain that spigot each time you use it, DO YOU HEAR???? Jack

[marson]

What do you mean by the electric pump in the well? If it is a shallow well pump in some sort of a pit, it is possible that it froze as well. Usually on those, the pressure switch freezes first and causes the pump to stop operating. If you have such a pump, put a heat lamp on it. If you have a submersible pump, it is unlikely to be damaged. I'm surprised you haven't been able to thaw the spigot. Is this one of the setups that has a pipe sticking out of the ground with an orange handle that you pull up to turn the water on? I'd call that a hydrant. Perhaps the ice blockage extends under the level of the ground a bit. It shouldn't be a big deal to thaw the upper portion, but thawing the blockage below the surface would take some doing. Put a torch right on the pipe where it enters the ground. At any rate, the fact that you left the handle up is a good thing, since as it froze, the expanding water would have a place to go.

[JerseyMike]

"FragileWarrior" > (submersible) pump, you wouldn't need one at ground level.

try some electric blankets laid on the ground and over the spigot cover the blankets on the ground w/ hay then cover the hay w/ a couple horse blankets or tarps but NOT plastic.

mike........

[Doug Miller]

In article , FragileWarrior

It's called a freeze-proof hydrant. If this one's been damaged, that's what you ask for when you go to replace it.

*That* is a lot of work, though. The water line will be 3 or 4 feet below ground, and so obviously it takes a *lot* of digging to get down there.

Your best bet, actually, is to leave it alone until the weather warms up. Unless you can build a shed around it, you're going to have a really tough time getting it warm enough to thaw. Any damage that may be done by freezing has already happened, and will not worsen by leaving it alone. Carry water for the horses from the house with buckets.

Yes, it's a pain, but I've done it before, and you can too.

Our previous home was a mini-farm. We, too, had an outside well, and multiple hydrants in the pasture and barn. We never had a hydrant freeze -- just the main pipe from the pressure tank to the hydrants, that's all. The previous owners hadn't taken very good care of things: the wellhead and pressure tank were in a small shed that had no insulation, multiple holes in the siding, and no heat source save a single 100W light bulb. We moved in in February, and the dang thing was frozen solid. So we spent about a month schlepping water from the house in 5-gallon buckets for the horses.

It's not fun. But it's doable.

As soon as the weather warmed up, I repaired the freeze damage, then tore the shed down and built a new one -- with insulation, and a 400W electric heater.

[Gerry Atrick]

On Sun, 4 Feb 2007 13:25:11 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior

OK, now we're getting some where. The pump is way down in the well, and will not freeze. The thing you are talking about is a riser spigot, or I call them a hydrant. I have dealt with these things freezing several times. Here's the easy method, but only if this hydrant is outdoors and is not near any flammable materials. In other words, if it outdoors and there is no building, trees, or other flammables near it for at least 10 feet. OK, dig away any snow around the hydrant and take some cardboard boxes, paper, and some small twigs and or wood and build a pile around the hydrant. Set this pile on fire. Your hydrant should begin to flow after a few minutes (have the pump on). Yeah, this might sound dangerous to some people, but remember, you can ONLY do this if there are no flammables nearby. The hydrant itself is metal and wont burn. I have done this a few times and it works great.

If the hydrant is indoors or near flammables, buy several propane torches. Get the ones called TURBO TORCH. They are hotter. Put one in each hand, get a friend with one or two also. Each torch does 1/3 or 1/4th of the stand pipe.

If you are really handy, start by shutting off the pump. Then take off the handle, then you can put the torch where the head (top part of the hydrant where the handle goes - usually painted). Right below that painted head are threads. With two pipe wrenches you can remove the head, but be sure not to turn the pipe where it enters the ground. Remove the head. There will be a metal rod in the center. Start pouring table salt into that pipe around the rod. Then heat the top of that pipe till the water boils and keep adding more salt. The water will boil out of the top of the pipe a little at a time. Once you get down a few inches, the boiling water will react with the salt and melt downward quite quickly. Just keep applying the torch or torches further down the pipe. You will likely hear the water evel drop when the salt melts thru, or just turn on the pump for a few seconds, but stay away.

This salt method works well, but you need to know how to disassemble the head.

The fire around the hydrant is the easiest method.

Once fixed, always be sure to remove the hose immediately when you are finished and turn off the hydrant. I think you know that by now,,,,

Good Luck Let us know what works.

NOTE: You may likely have a cracked head. That cast iron is the first thing to break. You can get replacements for most models.

[Gerry Atrick]

Actually, the "Shed" could be a steel 55 gallon drum with both ends removed. Place the drum over the hydrant and put an electric space heater inside. Cover the top with metal. That'll thaw it. If the drum is not high enough, oyt it on concrete blocks but be sure the entire bottom is closed.

[Gerry Atrick]

I forgot to mention. When you thaw it with torches, always start at the top so the water can boil out. Then work down.

On Sun, 4 Feb 2007 11:33:35 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior down in the well. The "pump" that's frozen is the pump unit that's at

[Doug Miller]

Wouldn't it be simpler to use a 55-gallon drum with only one end removed??

You're assuming, too, that a 55-gallon drum is long enough to cover the hydrant. For most of the hydrants I've seen, that's not a correct assumption.

What you're forgetting is that by this time, the hydrant is surely frozen at least a foot below the surface, too -- so the OP needs to thaw not only the frozen hydrant, but frozen ground too.

I still think the best way to thaw it is to wait for warm weather -- although on a sunny day, a 55-gallon drum, painted black, with one end closed, might do the trick.

[Barney]

anybody mention turning off the power?

[Harry K]

AT last. I kept reading wondering when someone would call it right. They are called "Frost Free Hydrants" out here. I don't know what the true technical name is. Asking for one by either of those names will get what he needs.

Harry K

[FragileWarrior]

"Jack" wrote in news: [e-mail]:

If I *EVER* forget to put that handle down again someone should just take me out and shoot me because my brain has obviously seen better days and has turned completely to mush.

Here's the latest: I schlepped into town (30 miles round trip) and got two heat lamps. I set up the tent, plugged them in and one didn't work. (I must have broken a mirror recently or something...) I could tell pretty quick that this set-up wasn't going to do much -- especially with one lamp -- so when I schlepped back to town, I bought heat tape. I put that on -- six foot of it, spiral around the pipe but not touching itself

-- and covered it with two huge pieces of R30 insulation. I taped it the best I could (the tape is freezing and not sticking) and then I jammed a plastic garbage can down over the whole set up. I figure I will leave it until tomorrow without undoing it.

Thanks to everyone who is replying and trying to suggest ways to help. Strength-wise, I don't have what it takes to remove spigots/piping or other heavy-duty stuff. Until this thaws out, I'll be running out with buckets of water every hour.

Thanks everyone.

[FragileWarrior]

"Barney" wrote in news:Wboxh.19522$ [e-mail]:

It was off when it froze.

[David Martel]

Mike,

I also like the electric blanket idea but recommend those small, waterproof, heating pads instead. I'd be nervous about water leaks so the pads should be waterproof and the switches and plugs need to be protected from water as well/

Dave M.

[Steve Barker]

If he would have left the handle down, then the water would have drained back down. That how a freeze proof hydrant work. And that's what it sounds like he has. see: