Frost Free Faucets

[Ryan Born]

We are renovating our 80 year old Wright style house and are looking at replacing the current outside faucets with frost free faucets. We are in Wisconsin, so the winters get quite cold. The only issue is that the walls where these faucets are located are over 2.5" thick. This is making finding a long enough frost free faucet very hard, as the longest we can find is 12"-14" long.

I would prefer not to have to continue to empty these faucets each winter if I don't have to. Does anyone have any good ideas regarding this? Anyone know where you can get extra long frost free faucets?

Thanks,

-Ryan

[Rastus]

I had this problem on one of my houses... I ended up putting a valve before the line went outside, running the pipe thru the foundation walls and installing a valve outdoors. During winter close the inside valve and leave the outside valve open. Seemed to work fine.

[ryanborn2]

Ooops, as a addition to my past post, I meant to say that the walls are over 2.5 FEET thick. Thanks!

-Ryan

[Tony Hwang]

Hi, Frost free faucets come in several different length. No problem with

2.5" wall. I installed thru 7" thick wall out at my cabin. What really is, the seat is located way inside from faucet end and when you install it, it is little tilted downward by way of beveled mounting gasket to help water to drain when it is closed. I am in Alberta, I bet it gets colder than there. I think I saw 16" long one at HD. Tony

[ryanborn2]

Obviously you got to this one before I reposted saying 2.5' (FEET) thick wall. Thanks for your attempt!

-Ryan

[George E. Cawthon]

I don't understand what difference the wall thickness makes anyway. You buy the frost free faucet, solder it onto the end of a pipe (or screw in on with a threaded fitting) then you run the pipe through the wall hole from the outside and solder it on the inside supply pipe. After all copper pipe comes in standard 10' lengths.

Are you afraid the wall is going to freeze 12" back from the outside surface? Stone might, depending on what is on the inside surface, but it probably wouldn't. If you are worried, wrap the pipe with a heater tape from the frost-free connection to the inside wall when you install it and add a convenient switch to turn it on and off (one with a lock). Or, make the hole large enough that you can cover the pipe (from the outside surface to the inside wall with the standard tubular pipe insulation. The insulation wouldn't use power but would allow heat to travel from the inside down the pipe to keep it from freezing.

A better solution would be to relocate the supply pipe to the faucet underground or through a thinner wall.

[trader4]

I would check with a large plumbing supply in your area and see what the longest freeze proof sillcock they could order is. There might be a commercial/industrial type product that would be longer than the typical home ones. However, you may not need one that extends all the way inside. I'm pretty sure I've seen them as long as 16 or 18 inchs. If you got that far into the wall, and had it well sealed up on the outside, I would think it wouldn't freeze. To do that, you'd have to go use the screw threads and use a female adaptor on the pipe which would end mid wall.

If you're not in a hurry, you could use one of the remote thermometers that have a wire probe attached to do some monitoring this winter of how cold it gets inside the wall. Then you'd know.

[Robertm]

Be aware that frost free faucets are available with and without the anti-siphon feature. The code here requires all outside faucets to be anti-siphon. I hired licensed plumber, he didn't get a permit, it wasn't inspected and he put in one that isn't anti-siphon. It doesn't meet the code but I don't expect any problem because the inspectors here aren't any smarter than the plumbers.

Bob

[scott21230]

"I ended up putting a valve before the line went outside, running the pipe thru the foundation walls and installing a valve outdoors. During winter close the inside valve and leave the outside valve open. Seemed to work fine."

This is also how I recommend doing it.

[cpborn]

Unfortunately, all the walls of the house are 36" thick stone and it does get cold enough in the stone to freeze the pipe all the way to the inside because I had it happen one year when I forgot to drain one of the pipes. There is no way to slope the pipe down to the outside so that I can simply open the outside faucet after I shut of the water inside. The longest frostfree valve made (even for commercial use) is

24". This means the shut off would still be 12" into the stone. At this point the only solution that the plumbers suggest is to put a shutoff valve and a drain valve inside. Unfortunately there is no good place to place this without it sitting in plain view in a finished space. I hoped that osmeone knew of a source of very long frost free valves that my plumbers and I had not discovered. Thanks

[Joshua Putnam]

Try something more industrial -- electrically-operated valves well in from the walls, where things won't freeze.

[RicodJour]

Let me see if I can sum this up. You hired an unlicensed plumber who didn't get a permit and installed a fixture you knew did not meet code. I think you left someone out of that last sentence...

R

[Joshua Putnam]

Just recalled another alternative I've seen for a remote water shutoff, ought to work for a faucet, too -- if you don't mind drilling another small hole for a pushrod, you can remotely operate a quarter-turn ball valve. The pushrod links to the handle on the ball valve, push to turn it off, pull to turn it on.

[Robertm]

Read again, I said the plumber was LICENSED. No licensed plumber pulls a permit to install a new faucet and thus there are no inspections for minor work, and therefore there is no incentive for a licensed plumber to do the job correctly, and therefore they won't. If he saves a few pennies on every job, he gets that much extra under the guise of doing good work. His license says his work is good and he is approved by the state as a knowledgeable professional. What more could a homeowner ask for than someone who is blessed by a state licensing board? How about an honest job? Never happen.

Bob

[mm]

You must know by now that they make combination shutoff/drain valves.

There is a little cap that unscrews to do the draining. I've had trouble getting the cap undone sometimes, after I had trouble getting it tight enough to stop dripping, But it's ok this year. But buy one with a good design.

Put a model train around it.

Or a cover.

P&M

Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let me know if you have posted also.

[RicodJour]

Sorry for the misread, Bob. When did you find out that the anti-siphon was required? I've had similar incidents with electricians. For some reason they love to bury junction boxes. I run into them all of the time when I open up walls, and I even have my otherwise excellent electrician make the suggestion to bury them. "Save you some time and money..." Not happening.

R

[Brian]

No big deal,

buy 24", get 2' of 1/2" copper and fem adapter. Solder them together. Thread faucet in. Viola 4' faucet.

Brian

[buffalobill]

[mm]

What he wants is to have the valve portion of the faucet inside the house where it is warm. The water beyond the valve, closer to the outside, will drain out even if the fauce is off. He's trying to prevent the pipes from freezing.

I wish I had these things in my house. I forgot to drain the pipe this year and it's been down to 15 degrees several nights,

I don't think it froze however.

Do you folkx think it gets cold enough in Baltimore to split the pipe of a heated house? Or will the warmth of the basement be enough to counteract the cold of the outside?

I can't believe all my neighbors remember to do this every year, and I've never heard the local new remind anyone.

Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let me know if you have posted also.

[trader4]

"I ended up putting a valve before the line went outside, running the pipe thru the foundation walls and installing a valve outdoors. During winter close the inside valve and leave the outside valve open. Seemed to work fine."

You do realise you are talking about an entirely different approach? The freeze proof sillcock has many advantages. Including that you don't have to remember to winterize it, which can be even more important for applications like rental rproperty. And, if you want to use some water a few times during the winter, all you have to do is turn on the faucet. IMO, it's the only way to go.