frequent pump runs

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Hie everyone. I have a submersible pump with a fl 7 composite bladder tank. The pump turns on at 40 and off at 60. Every time I flush the toilet, the pump turns on. Is this normal? I thought that the tank should hold more that 1 toilets worth of water. I don't know how much the toilet holds, house was built in 1991. Thanks in advance for the help. mcdonnep
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mcdonnep;3108582 Wrote: > Hie everyone. I have a submersible pump with a fl 7 composite bladder

> should

> toilet

Your toilet is probably 5 gallons per flush.
If withdrawing 5 gallons from your bladder tank is sufficient to cause it's pressure to drop below 40 psig, then the pump will come on every time the toilet is flushed.
You may want to consider installing a much larger bladder tank. The bigger your tank, the less frequently your sump pump will come on, but the longer it will run each time it does come on.
--
nestork


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On 8/17/2013 3:50 PM, nestork wrote:

Um, I didn't think you used a sump pump for potable water. O_o
TDD
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Daring Dufas:
I think she means a well pump. That's a cylindrical pump that goes right down the water well. But it's still underwater, so it's just another kind of submersible pump.
Dpb: If the tank were waterlogged, then the diphragm in the tank is torn. So, once you emptied the water out of the tank, the air pressure on the air side of the diaphragm would also leak out. So, why would you measure 38 psi? It would seem to me that with the tank empty and the diaphragm torn, the pressure on both sides of the torn diaphragm will be atmospheric pressure, wouldn't it?
--
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If the system's open to the atmosphere, yes. That's why you close the shutoff valve before you pressurize the tank.
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On 8/17/2013 6:37 PM, nestork wrote:

There can be a pinhole leak that takes a long time to lose a significant amount of air so that if re-establish a new working pressure/volume one can often get by for quite some time.
Or, of course, could have lost air to atmosphere thru a leak Schroeder valve and the bladder/diaphragm is fine...
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On 8/17/2013 6:37 PM, nestork wrote:

When I was a kid back on the family farm, we got our water from a natural spring that had been dug out and turned into a 2,000 gal reservoir with a little pump house built over it. The pump used to pump water to the house 100 yards away was a long cylindrical well pump. Perhaps my father used such a pump designed for a deep well because the water had to come up out of gully where the spring was and on to the house which was some distance away. There was a pressurized tank in the basement and as I remember, a toilet flush could start the pump running but those were the older (wasteful) toilets that actually flushed the contents down to the septic tank with one flush. It's been 40 years since I've seen it so my experience is a bit out of date but from what I've seen in other homes over the years, the basic well pump installations are all the same. ^_^
TDD
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On 8/17/2013 2:44 PM, mcdonnep wrote:

The tank is waterlogged -- you can try draining it entirely (after turning of pump, of oourse) and then checking the pressure. Should be 2 lb under the cut-in pressure -- 38 in your case.
See if that will extend the life of the tank a little while -- but a new tank is in your future sooner rather than later.
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+1 on the "waterlogged". Here's a bit more detail on hot to correct.
1) Shut power to pump
2) Open a "lowest" sink or hose valve and drain tank completely. Leave valve open.
3) Add air pressure to you tank until you are at 38 psi.
4) Close the valve opened in (2) above.
5) Turn on pump.
If the problem happens again in less than a year or two, you will need a new pressure tank, but can get by for as long as you are willing to repeat the above procedure. However that is not recommended as frequent cycling of the pump shortens it's life.

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On 8/18/2013 7:56 AM, CRNG wrote:

I've never checked pressure in mine and note that last tank was installed 8 years ago. I had written on the tank that the installer said bladder pressure should be set at 25 - 28 pounds.
This is third pressure tank on my well over its ~35 year lifetime.
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On 8/18/2013 8:19 AM, Frank wrote: ...

Should be 2-lb under the cut-in pressure -- which implies you're running a 30-50 cycle; pretty common as well...

Which averages out to about a dozen yr/tank which is about what one can expect on average -- it's quite possible OP can stretch the life of his for several more years depending on the state it's currently in and precisely where his leak is and how long it's been neglected in the current state.
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On Sunday, August 18, 2013 6:26:41 AM UTC-7, dpb wrote:

d




??? I have never heard of a tank going bad that fast and I have been mainin tain my well and neighbors for a long, long time. My well was put in in th e 80s and the tank is still alive and well. A tank failing in 6-7 years wo uld have to be due to something in the water eating the tank or bladder.
Harry K
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On 8/18/2013 8:54 AM, Harry K wrote: ...

...
I don't think the quality of tanks/diaphragms is what it used to be is a large (the largest?) part of it -- the first on the new well here lasted nearly 30 yr; the replacement of it was also long-lived but not as long as that I'd guess; that was during the hiatus while was gone for 30-yr in VA/TN. In the fifteen yr since we've been back we're now on the third--counting the one that was failing when moved back...same batwell, same batwater.
I think next time I'm just going back to the old straight tank and air bubble over it -- sure, have to recharge occasionally but there's no bladder/diaphragm to fail.
How much, if any, has to do w/ all the new EPA requirements on manufacturing so that the rubber compounds aren't what they used to be or how much is just seeing how cheaply they can be made I don't know, but I'd surely not bet on any new tanks lasting nearly what the old ones used to...
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On Sunday, August 18, 2013 10:06:42 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote:

You shouldn't have to recharge it. Before the bladder type tanks, the traditional ones for decades had simple self regulation systems that added air in automatically if needed. It's just that like everything else that after a long enough time they would fail too and then the tank would water log.
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On 8/19/2013 8:30 AM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote: ...

...

Never saw such; how'd that work? All we had until this new well ("new" as in drilled in the early-mid '60s) was just a "plain 'ol tank".
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On Monday, August 19, 2013 12:39:57 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:

It's basically a widget that goes onto a fitting opening on the side of the tank, about half up, ie at where the air level should be. It has a float or similar inside it that reacts to the water level. If the water level gets above the level of the tank fitting, it triggers a valve in the widget to open which is connected to the suction side of the pump. That allows a small amount of air to get sucked in. Each time the pump runs, that process works, until the air level is back to the level of the widget.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/19320919?wmlspartner=wlpa&adid "222222227017094556&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3&495372316&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6Q984823956&veh=sem
if the link doesn't work, just google "water tank air control"
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On 8/19/2013 12:48 PM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote: ...

...
Hmmmmn....concept ok, execution here would be _really, really_ tough as it's 2-300 ft from well house where the pressure tank is and the well...

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On Monday, August 19, 2013 4:25:55 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:

Yes, I guess I should have mentioned they only work on jet pumps where you have the suction side of the pump near the tank. Which is probably why you don't see them much these days. Years ago, many wells were shallow. With a submersible they can't be used.

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On 8/19/2013 5:14 PM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote: ...

...
That's more a function of local water tables than "these or those" days. The water table here is 200-ft or so...
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On Monday, August 19, 2013 7:48:12 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:

Yes, depth is a factor, but here in NJ you used to be able to have a well at any depth. The old systems I saw from decades ago that had conventional tanks and jet pumps were wells that were 50 ft or less. Today you can't have a well less than 50 ft. A jet pump can still be used down to 100ft or so, but submersibles are more efficient. I haven't seen a residential potable water well put in around here in a long time, so don't know what they are using for those. But I've seen several irrigation wells at 50 ft or less and they all use submersibles.
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