For all of you "second hand smoke" ninnies.

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Well then, lets put all smokers in internment camps and keep them away from the rest of society
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<double whoosh>
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On 7/4/2016 2:50 PM, ChairMan wrote:

made them illegal.
It is up to the restaurant to clean after. Going in the next day you'd never know there was smoking if it was properly ventilated and cleaned. Why should you care if it is not bothering you? No one is forcing anyone to do anything.
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I don't know about where you are, Ed, but hooka bars are real popular here in Big D. Don't know why or what the difference is in smoking tobacco in a hooka vs papers, but they are okay with it <shrug>
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On Sunday, July 3, 2016 at 1:13:51 PM UTC-4, Muggles wrote:

Can you not comprehend that I said, sure, that's just like all the times Green comes in here and tells us he's a Republican. But since he's demonstrated for years that he's not, no one believe him either. In his case, he's yet to name a single Republican that he likes, he regularly rants against all of them, even Reagan was no good.

Then why are you against allowing me to have a private cigar dinner at a restaurant in a private room? How about a bar that wants to allow smoking, all the patrons that go there, the staff, are all OK with it, how is it consistent with conservatism for you to use big govt to deny them that right? And conservatives don't believe in "common sense", they believe in smaller govt and allowing people the freedom to live their own lives, eg smokers have rights too.
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On 7/3/2016 5:52 PM, trader_4 wrote:

Smoking leaves residue and that third hand residue can make people sick.
It's like trying to defend spraying a room with toxic waste in the name of freedom and then accusing anyone who objects to it of being controlling and manipulative.
You wouldn't want to be the next group of people in the room that had been saturated with toxic waste, and I don't want to be the next person in the room where people may have been smoking.
BTW, people who smoke in one room have no control over where the smoke goes or where the residue ends up, in addition to, the walking stench of people going to and fro throughout the restaurant from the "smoking" room.

I imagine there are a few dives that still allow smoking, but their days are numbered.

I'm all for smaller government and freedom. What I am AGAINST is anyone poisoning the air I breathe, and smoking does that.
--
Maggie

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On Sunday, July 3, 2016 at 11:13:34 PM UTC-4, Muggles wrote:

So far you've given us zero proof of that. Just because you can cite a study where they found that after someone has been smoking in a car for hours, the worst possible environment, that byproducts can be found doesn't prove that anyone has been made sick, nor did the researchers say that. And that is a very long way from someone catching a whiff of a cigarette from 25 ft away.

BS. And no one is forcing you to be in the room with me.

Fine. Then have the restaurant free to make that decision. They can have rooms where smoking is never allowed and rooms where it is allowed. Disclose it and allow the people to decide. That's the conservative position. The lib position is to rant on, to force YOUR way onto everyone, because you know what's good for us.

Not true. You could have separate air systems for the smoking allowed room. Or whole separate bar/restaurants where smoking is allowed. Leave the customers free to decide, not libs shoving it down the people's throats because you think they are too stupid to decide for themselves.

Yes, in a few states. The problem is that people like you forced it to be that way and want to continue to force it, until you control us totally. That is one big reason why we can't pass any new gun legislation, because people don't trust libs. They know it's a never ending process to suck freedom from us all.

It clearly doesn't do it in bars, restaurants that leave people free to choose. If you want to select a bar that bans smoking, you can go there. If others want to select one that allows it, they can go there. But from your statements, it's clear that, the conservative, logical position, isn't good enough for you. It's typical of libs.
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On 7/4/2016 10:46 AM, trader_4 wrote:

Please read this entire article: http://www.pnas.org/content/107/15/6576.full.pdf
I'll even post the summary for you.
"Formation of carcinogens indoors by surface-mediated reactions of nicotine with nitrous acid, leading to potential third hand smoke hazards.
This study shows that residual nicotine from tobacco smoke sorbed to indoor surfaces reacts with ambient nitrous acid (HONO) to form carcinogenic tobacco-specific nitrosamines (TSNAs). Substan- tial levels of TSNAs were measured on surfaces inside a smoker’s vehicle. Laboratory experiments using cellulose as a model indoor material yielded a>10-fold increase of surface-bound TSNAs when sorbed secondhand smoke was exposed to 60 ppbv HONO for 3 hours. In both cases we identified 1-(N-methyl-N-nitrosamino)-1-(3-pyridinyl)-4-butanal, a TSNA absent in freshly emitted tobacco smoke, as the major product. The potent carcinogens 4-(methy-lnitrosamino)-1-(3-pyridinyl)-1-butanone and N-nitroso nornicotine were also detected. Time-course measurements revealed fast TSNA formation, with up to 0.4% conversion of nicotine. Given the rapid sorption and persistence of high levels of nicotine on indoor surfaces—including clothing and human skin—this recently identified process represents an unappreciated health hazard through dermal exposure, dust inhalation, and ingestion. These findings raise concerns about exposures to the tobacco smoke residue that has been recently dubbed “thirdhand smoke.” Our work highlights the importance of reactions at indoor interfaces, particularly those involving amines and NO x/HONO cycling, with potential health impacts."
http://www.pnas.org/content/107/15/6576.full.pdf

"Toxic waste is any material in liquid, solid, or gas form that can cause serious harm to humans as well as other animals and the environment." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxic_waste
Smoking leaves behind toxic waste.

It doesn't solve the issue of secondhand or thirdhand smoke. Even if a room is set aside for smoking, people still open the doors, come and go from those smoking rooms and enter the non-smoking area and expose non-smokers to those contaminants where not only adults may be exposed, but also children exposed to those toxic wastes.
This issue is not about politics - it's a health issue.

Businesses are free to do that now, but very few of them choose to go all smoking because too many people don't smoke, now, and that bites into their bottom line profits. It's not fiscally smart to eliminate a large percentage of customers in order to accommodate smoking.

You better believe it I'm on the side of forcing smokers to NOT smoke in any public venue.

Gun legislation has no relevance to the health issues of smoking. It's also a separate thread.

I don't go to bars, and never have. Bars that are in restaurants I've been to are all non-smoking environments.

Smoking is not a political issue. It's a health issue, and as a conservative I'll continue to vote for people who are in agreement with my stance.
--
Maggie

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On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 13:23:26 -0500, Muggles

A good case in point is cruise ships. European cruise ships allow smoking BUT NOT IN THE STATEROOMS ans NOT ON BALCONIES for safety reasons
American cruise ships allow smoking only in "designated areas" such as the casino and the "cigar bar" - but those areas are not sealed from the rest of the ship and are inadequately ventilated. On our last cruise there was over half of one deck - and a good section of another deck that i could NOT safely enter. Iincluding one of the highee end restaurants I wanted to eat in)

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On 7/4/2016 5:09 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Center posted, as your reply is. Considerable text trimmed as a courtesy.
- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus . www.lds.org . .
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On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 17:29:18 -0400, Stormin Mormon

Coutesy? You don't know courtesy. You don't know center posting either. Or current usenet ettiquette. I post my replies IN-LINE
You on the other hand just bitch and whine, posting "Center posted, as your reply is." with no input at all.
(By the way, your being a moron has nothing to do with being a mormon)

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On 7/4/2016 8:45 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Center posted, as yours was.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
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On 7/4/2016 4:09 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

That's a big problem with smoking environments.
--
Maggie

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On Monday, July 4, 2016 at 2:23:29 PM UTC-4, Muggles wrote:

The bottom line:
With potential health impacts. Almost everything has a potential health impact, including many of the things we have in our homes. This study proves nothing, no surprise. I could do a study on the effects of smoke generated off a range, conclude that it too has "possible health impacts.. BFD. And this has what to do with catching a whiff of smoke again? It doesn't.

Liberals leave behind toxic waste. How about these awful, horrific cancer producing products:
https://smartklean.wordpress.com/2011/02/23/the-top-12-cancer-causing-produ cts-in-the-average-home/
On the list is Ajax, hot dogs and shampoo. OMG, we're all gonna die!

And again with the extreme nonsense, no compromise lunacy of the libs.

It's absolutely an issue of politics, which you'd of course realize if you were a conservative.

Again you demonstrate your ignorance. Businesses in most states are no longer free to do that. The libs saw to that. If you were a conservative, you'd know that.

No, they don't because in most states, the CAN NOT. Libs like you saw to that. There is no compromise.

Well, there you go, typical, talking out of both sides of your mouth. First you claim that bars and restaurants are free to choose, which they are not, and then you admit you want to crush that too. THAT is exactly what libs do. There is no compromise. It's why no one that's conservative wants to hear about a new gun law, because we know it's only one step on the lib process that never ends.

It has a lot of relevance, as cited above.

Gee, I wonder why?

If you were a conservative you'd know damn well that it's also a political issue.
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Open a Black/Hispanic/LGBT/Safe space cigar bar and you'll be fine
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On Monday, July 4, 2016 at 2:06:18 AM UTC-4, ChairMan wrote:

ROFL. Yeah, interesting how all those other groups have rights, even special rights, yet smokers are told to go to hell.
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On 7/4/2016 11:47 AM, trader_4 wrote:

I've been thinking about making up a story about the bucket of water I have on the deck to water the plants.
I would tell people that I put it there as a refuge for Zika virus mosquitoes. Liberals want more money to remove them but I think we should protect them to accompany their colleagues taking refuge here.
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it's not just smokers, but you already knew that
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On 07/02/2016 11:20 AM, Vic Smith wrote:

Again, reality refuses to be simple, and these situations do happen.

Seeing it reminds me of the impaired breathing.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/
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On 07/02/2016 11:04 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

True. I see a lot of this nonsense, claiming something is harmless because something else is worse.

There's another common fallacy there (at least in speech). The idea that there is only ONE of something. I wonder how many whiffs of smoke I've been exposed to (and it's a LOT more than one).
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/
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