Food shortage ethanol follies, I've planted a food garden.

The per usual republicrat farm socialism has created food supply chaos, subsidized corn for ethanol fuel has crowded out other food crops, speculators abroad have taken their bales of dollarpesos and bought out our wheat supplies so that we'll have to re-import at a higher price. Gov't. has paid southeast Texas farmers to raise livestock instead of rice, now Sam's Club and Costco are rationing it. So I tossed the ornamental plants and have planted corn, beans, peppers, and tomatoes, maybe carrots next. I recommend others do the same this season in their backyards if they have them. I don't think there will be acute food shortages this year in the USA, but grocery prices are high and getting higher. It will also save the fossile fuel to get it from the farm to your table. I would raise meat but codes in my 'burb won't allow it.
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

The second paragraph in any article about ethanol addresses the water needed for processing. I live where water has been an issue for a long time. What is truly scary is that everyone and their cousin is howling about the price of oil/gas, and yet not a word about conserving. Not a word about modernizing transport systems to haul trucks across the country by rail rather than air or interstate.
Of course, more expensive fuel and food might make some cut back and help change the problem with so many children becoming ill from obesity. Gardening is one of the most enjoyable and healthy activities I know of, but when one depends on it for food it might not be as relaxing. Don't bother with Japanese beetle traps - just pluck them off and kill 'em.
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Norminn wrote:

Use of fuel for food is pure stupidity. Studies have shown that the fuel you get out is about equal to the energy you put in. Big agribusiness is the only one that prospers. Agribusiness with their contribution paid off political stooges started pissing in the soup years ago pushing ethanol into gasoline for environmental/pollution reasons. Never mind that the oil companies said they could comply without the oxygenate mandate.
Don't blame OPEC or big oil. We've peaked on recoverable oil reserves and with the economic booms in China and India high fuel prices are here to stay.
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How come Brazil could get away from dino oil and we, with all our technology and money, couldn't? Looks like sugar cane is much more efficient than corn. Brazilian started the ethanol program since the start of the oil crisis during the 1970s while we're only getting started now when oil is hitting $100 per barrel. I wouldn't be surprised if oil will hit $200 per barrel by year end.
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Frank wrote:

Sugar cane is, in fact, a much better source of ethanol than corn.
nate
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Frank wrote:

They haven't. The amount of petroleum for cars has been supplemented, but Brazil still uses large amounts of petroleum for other products. In fact Brazil just found one of the largest oil reserves in the hemisphere and will be developing it. Last I heard, they expect to be producing a couple of million barrels per day. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid 601086&sidUoYKhu7PWk&refer=latin_america http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4563896.stm

That's why they (Brazilian farmers) are now turning huge tracts of Amazonian rain forest (jungle) into sugar cane production in order to sustain the ethanol production program. Brazil, of course, denies any impact on the jungle.

The problem is the amount of farmable land for food or fuel production, which includes water for irrigation. Right now it is a finite pie..... you take a slice for fuel crops and that reduces the slices available for food crops.
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Dave www.davebbq.com

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Although you raise other valid points, the lack of energy gain is now mainly rumor that keeps getting passed on rather than truth. It was supported by one study since debunked for assuming that all corn production requires irrigation.
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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How come we can't convince the tree hugers to go jump off a cliff, so we can build some more refineries, and drill the oil that's on US soil?
--
Christopher A. Young
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Stormin Mormon wrote:

Maybe because we haven't tried? They're easy to convince, but not by facts. Read "The True Believer" by Eric Hoffer. A small book, but one that cannot be read quickly. After each sentence, you'll put the book down, stroke your chin, and go "Hmmm."
"People join mass movements because so doing adds meaning to their otherwise meaningless lives."
"A mass movement can exist without a god, but it will always fail without a devil. A movement must have someone to hate."
"People mind their own business when it is worth minding. When it is not, they mind other peoples business."
"Membership in mass movements is interchangeable. People join a movement and only then adopt the goals of the movement."
"People join mass movements to escape individual responsibility. They do this by subsuming their will to that of the group."
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On Apr 24, 9:05pm, "Stormin Mormon"

Tree hugger in today's paper had a column admitting ethanol failure. But, in typical liberal fashion, said they meant well and now should muck up something else ;(
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Stormin Mormon wrote:

Because it's not a sustainable plan. It's still cheaper to import oil than to produce it domestically. Hence, the search for economically viable alternative (preferably renewable) energy sources.
Based on current US policy, though, domestic drilling would be a better idea than anything currently enacted.
nate
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Nate Nagel wrote:

Renewable won't work and can't be made to work. Renewables can nibble at the margins, but large scale? Nah. Here's why:
The energy received from the sun is about 1350 Watts/sq meter. At the equator. At noon. With no clouds.
Assuming solar collectors with an efficiency of 50%, and adjusting for latitude, clouds, and night, we would need a solar collector farm the size of the Los Angeles basin (1200 sq miles) to provide enough electricity for just California. The downsides of this plan are obvious: The cost of the solar farm would be enormous, and it's maintenance equally prohibitive. Plus, you'd need a battery farm the size of Barksdale to tide Californians over during the night.
Also, everyone in Los Angeles and Barksdale would be living in the dark (which might be a plus).
The good news is that the amount of radiation reaching the earth (the aforementioned 1350 Watts) can be increased by simply moving the orbit of the earth closer to the sun.
And "renewable" is not always a holy word. Think whale oil.
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I give. How is RR or the feds in general involved in your benefits. Actually you probably also owe RR for lower taxes. After all the indexing of tax brackets to inflation (and thus getting rid of "bracket creep", was probably the REAL major tax contribution of the Reagan Admin.
Of
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On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 11:21:11 -0700 (PDT), Seerialmom

Honestly, I never understood why people drink those soft drinks. They taste like medicine to me. I like H20. My main drink is Chinese green tea, which I get from Chinatown 2x a year at a high price, but it's the top of the line, and one uses very little per cup.
I also like fruit juice, esp. if not made from concentrate. Matter of fact, I'm hooked on Trader Joe's Mango juice. Yummmm...!
Now that I'm on my soap box: I
If you have teen- or sub-teen girls - PLEASE do not let them drink cokes at all, if possible, and if not possible, limit their intake. These abominations are taking the place of the milk/yoghurt that girls should be consuming to build strong bones for possible child-bearing and generally to avoid osteoporosis. These poor children are setting themselves up for early onset of osteoporosis, with its deadly threat of fragile bones fracturing easily. Hip replacement, anybody?
Plus, there is the problem addressed above of the HFCS which do so much harm -- again, disproportionately to the developing bodies of young teenage and sub-teen girls.
Parents! The girls don't have the judgment to make these decisions on their own, plus they are heavily swayed by peer pressure and advertising. A little "tough love", SVP.
Aspasia
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aspasia wrote:

I disagree. The "special interests" (read: money) are the antidote to the frenzy of the masses. Special interests act as a check-and-balance to the whims of the mob. Sometimes the special interests win (farm subsidies), sometimes the mob wins (global warming). It averages out.
George Will proposed a three-rule campaign finance reform: 1. No foreign money. 2. No cash. 3. Instant reporting.
That's it. If someone wants to vote for a candidate entirely financed by Exxon-Mobile, well, why not?
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You could see the change by observing what was on supermarket shelves and changes in labeling. It has been pretty dramatic. These days, supermarket shelf space is very tightly controlled. If something doesn't sell, it disappears pretty fast.
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its hard to believe that there are not people smart enough in gov that can think things thru.its all about money, everything is..if there was such thing today as goo journalists , all these scams could be exsposed and the names involved.... another one noone wants to do anything about is oil speculation and he fact we cant get more refineries built. lucas
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