fluidmaster toilet valves again

I've been unable to solve the low pitched "thunk" noise (vibrating pipes) that happens when the Fluidmaster 400a shuts off the water after a flush. I tried reducing the flow at the shutoff valve, but then I got a worse type of problem of an oscillating bang caused when the toilet shutoff valve closed beyond a certain point.
I tried shutting off the water altogether and draining the pipes but that didn't help.
It seems a cost effective solution would be for me to replace the darn Fluidmaster valve with a Korky Quietfill valve (which does not cause hammer). Only thing is I hate to having to waste the time replacing the valve just because of, what, in my opinion, was a bad design choice (if it's really true that the pipes are being harmed by the abrupt shutoff of the Fluidmaster.)
According to the Fluidmaster website, they make a "whisper" model that supposedly mitigates water hammer (albeit with a slower fill). I'm wondering if a good quick fix could be done by swapping the top part of a "whisper" model??? Or, is there is any other inexpensive modification I could make to the Fluidmaster that would accomplish the same thing (WITHOUT having to drain the tank and remove whole)???
(and, no, I don't think it makes any sense have a "hammer arrestor" installed is much more expensive than simply replacing the toilet valve)
Thanks,
J.
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we use this model everywhere. our pressure is 42 pounds per square inch measured with a portable meter that screws on a hose end at the laundry tub. at which faucets do you have water hammer? how many seconds does it take to fill the toilet tank after the cork closes? [we wait 90 seconds] is your house pressure high?
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wrote:

I'm assuming you have city water. There is supposed to be an arrestor at the meter. But you may need another one near the toilet supply pipe. It's not that hard to install an arrestor, but you are correct tht its cheaper and easier to just change the toilet Fluidmaster. Maybe one of the old style ballcocks with a float would be better for you. They are cheap, and its not all that hard to change it since you wont have all the rusted junk to deal with. The float types shut off slowly.
But, you really should have an arrestor at the meter either way.
Mark
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jaynews wrote:

Doesn't make sense? Maybe you don't want to go to the effort, seeing as you're hesitating with changing the Fluidmaster, but it still makes sense.
Just change the valve and get it over with. You're wasting time.
R
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wrote:

Some people like to make life complicated. Heck, wrap up the old Fluidmaster and give it to a friend for Christmas. That will save some shopping time and give you the time to change it. Better yet, wrap it with bows and give it to your motherinlaw..... A true gift from the heart...... (or a true gift from the fart) <lol>.
Mark
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you may have existing water hammer chambers already installed in your house that simply are flooded. this website discusses that and how to drain them at: http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infplumb/infwatham.shtm
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<<you may have existing water hammer chambers already installed in your house that simply are flooded. this website discusses that and how to drain them at: http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infplumb/infwatham.shtm
Tried that. Did not help.
Called Fluidmaster. They're sending me the "Whisper valve" version which has restricted flow. Is there any chance the Whisper model WON"T solve the problem? If so, then maybe I should just go ahead and buy the a Korky QuietFill though. I'd hate to spend the time installing the Whisper valve only to find I STILL get the thunk.
J.
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jaynews wrote:

Listen, the flipping part is $10 and it'll take you a half hour to swap out if you take a coffee break in the middle. You're dicking around on a newsgroup, people have given you all sorts of good advice, and you're still asking about the other valve. What are you looking for? A guaranty? Okay, I solemnly swear that the Korky Quietfill will solve all your problems. Just do it, fer cryin' out loud!
R
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Ok, I hear you. One reason for the hesitation is that there is some doubt as to whether the "thunk" noise (vibrating pipes) that I'm hearing is REALLY a severe enough hammer to be doing the pipes any harm. Some people were telling me that a "thunk" noise of vibrating pipes at shutoff is harmless, while others insist that it is bad for the pipes.
While the pipes upstream are vibrating enough to make a thunk noise, the vibrations don't make it all the way back to the beginning of the water line in the basement (2 floors down). The vibrations only make it down one floor. The hammer is a noticeable thunk noise but not horrendously lound. The toilet bowl itself does not seem to vibrate when it happens.
If there is no quick/easy way a homeowner could determine for sure if the thunk noise is REALLY a problem, then agree that I should just shut up and get the Korky tomorrow and install it to be on the safe side (in case the hammer is really a problem), and to put this issue to rest.
J
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jaynews wrote:

I'd be less concerned about the pipes and more concerned about the cheap-assed plastic that Fluidmaster uses. I had one physically break when we were out of town for a few days - had 10,000 gallons of water run through the house. Cost $3800 for house restoration. Plumbers say they see Fluidmaster products break all the time. I use nothing but brass now.
Bob S.
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Wow. In another thread I pondered what my next leak would be. I guess you've told me.

I guess I'm going to have to change them.

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jaynews wrote:

You could have changed it 3 times in the amount of time you spent here.
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On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 00:13:24 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"

Does he realize they have a bayonet mount?
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On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 19:38:19 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@UNLISTED.com wrote:

I didnt' do it for this reason, but I turned down the water supply on the upstairs toilet so low I can't even hear it (which was my goal)
I don't have a water hammer problem, but even if I did, I think I woldn't have one with this toilet. Easy and no charge fix.
BTW, is the reason I don't have water hammer just luck, or did the original plumber put arrestors in the wall that I can't see?

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