On 2/15/2014 5:47 PM, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
That, I've heard. Destroying currency.
Not allowed to melt down the old copper
pennies. Not allowed to punch hole in
coins. I've heard of folks in middle school
using the hole punch in sheet metal class
to punch holes in pennies. But that was
decades ago, and it's just some thing I
Oren, technically, your assertion is incorrect.
There is no US code against the destruction of currency. If you wish
to burn a million dollars to ash, there is no crime. Mutilation, etc
of currency is only a crime if there is fraudulent intent, for example
it you were to mutilate a $10 bill and attempt to pass it off as
anything other than a $10 bill.
The indisputable pivotal word in the code below is "fraud". There is
no fraud in putting a coin on a railroad track so a train can flatten
However, it is illegal to trespass on railroad tracks and it is most
certainly illegal to tamper with rail equipment.
USC title 18, Section 331
Whoever fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates, impairs, diminishes,
falsifies, scales, or lightens any of the coins coined at the mints of
the United States, or any foreign coins which are by law made current
or are in actual use or circulation as money within the United States;
Whoever fraudulently possesses, passes, utters, publishes, or sells,
or attempts to pass, utter, publish, or sell, or brings into the
United States, any such coin, knowing the same to be altered, defaced,
mutilated, impaired, diminished, falsified, scaled, or lightened -
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five
years, or both
NOT just sayin'
Slice and dice your own words as you will. However, there is no doubt
you asserted the following: "Destruction of our currency is illegal."
You are incorrect, it is not illegal.
You asserted this relative to the discussion of crushing of a penny
under a train.
You then went on to tell a completely unrelated and irrelevant story.
Yes, counterfeiting is illegal, not much of a news flash now is it?
Oren, nothing you have said above changes the fact you were wrong
about the "destruction of money being a crime". The USC was provided
as a citation.
If you would like to resurface the issue of children again, start a
new thread, I have no problem taking you to task, yet again.
Yes, you are still incorrect, the criminal nature of the offense is
dependent upon fraud.
Feel free to burn your own money, as long as you do not attempt to
defraud any entity or person, you have committed no crime.
You must read the entire statute and not just stop after the first
Can you find any statute that includes the word "destroy or
destruction" pertaining to currency? And is that statute dependant
upon any kind of fraud?
Working as a teller in NYC many years ago, we were taught to count bills by
looking at the president's face, not the number in the corner of the bill.
Watching the face not only makes it easier to spot a traditional
counterfeit bill because the face is harder to get perfect, but it also
makes it very easy to spot the poor man's technique to "counterfeit" a
People would cut off the right and left side from 2 different bills, e.g. 2
twenties, and tape them to a bill of a lower denomination. The original
bills were still good because both serial numbers were left intact. They
would then stick the taped bill into a stack of bills and buy something.
If you watch most cashiers, they'll hold their hand over the face and count
by the number in the corner.
We used to get big cash deposits from a lot of small stores and every now
and then I'd be counting a stack of Jackson's when suddenly Washington
would show up. Hard to miss that if you are watching the face, regardless
of how fast you can count. The fact that the altered bills made it to my
window from a small business proves that their cashiers weren't paying
attention to the faces.
Just curious...not arguing.
How does your assertion that "there is no US code against the destruction
of currency" stand up against Title 18 Section 333, which doesn't include
the word "fraudulent"?
"Defacement of currency is a violation of Title 18, Section 333 of the
United States Code. Under this provision, currency defacement is generally
defined as follows: Whoever mutilates, cuts, disfigures, perforates, unites
or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft, note,
or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking association,
Federal Reserve Bank, or Federal Reserve System, with intent to render such
item(s) unfit to be reissued, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned
not more than six months, or both.
Defacement of currency in such a way that it is made unfit for circulation
comes under the jurisdiction of the United States Secret Service. The
United States Secret Service web address is www.secretservice.gov."
Yeah, noticed that. I was being patient.
Still not sure if the word "intent" makes a difference. Perhaps it would be
legal to ”burn a million dollars to ash" since, while the action may indeed
make the currency unfit to be reissued, perhaps that wasn't the burner's
"intent". Maybe he just intended to heat his home and in the meantime just
happened to make the currency unfit.
When I was a kid, if a railroad cop caught you putting anything on a
train track, your parents were called and you got a butt whupping.
Today, a 9 year old would be turned over to the FBI charged with
terrorism and paraded in chains for the TV cameras. What's happened to
my country? o_O
On Sun, 16 Feb 2014 04:24:06 -0600, The Daring Dufas
You are such a little drama queen Dufas. If a 9 year old were caught
putting a coin on a railroad track, at worst, he would be detained,
the parents would be contacted, they would be warned about the dangers
and educated that what the child was doing is criminal trespass.
Yes, if the child were caught placing 5lbs. of RDX on the tracks with
an improvised cellular detonator, he would probably be arrested.
How about these kids? (It's long, but it appears to just repeat so you
don't have to watch the whole thing)
Minor Childrens Performed Stunt on Railway Track Mumbai Local Train...
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