Flashlight temptation

Page 11 of 16  
2016 08:39:06 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

Er.. wait...
Isn't nature also Gods? So, nature screws something up, and God only takes notice? C'mon... you do yourself no favors with those responses.

You do realize everything in that book was written 40+ years after Jesus was already gone? Some stories in the bible have been subjected to modern day scientific testing too. I'm thinking of the story where he talks to many people on a hill of some sort...
Well, some scientists went out there with modern audio equipment; As the story goes, everyone heard him, no problems. Well..Setting up audio equipment and trying it, shows otherwise. Unless Jesus had a PA system, the story doesn't hold water according to the results from modern scientific testing.

Ugh. You sound like someone who's been doing acid or something else that can alter your state of mind.

Really? Did you skip the old testament? He didn't seem very loving then.
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Hmmm. I most certainly don't understand how I can access a copy of a
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On 5/11/2016 3:02 AM, Bod wrote:

I've asked many questions, myself. As far as creation goes, including human beings, the rules were defined in the beginning. Babies being born blind or limbless and other such things happened after sin entered the world. There is now more chemicals and pollution that we're exposed to than there ever was, and that doesn't include what people voluntarily do to each other or themselves exposing themselves to all sorts of contaminates. I lost much of my hearing as a teen because I lived in a household with parents who smoked and secondhand smoke floated in the house constantly. It's a fact that me being exposed to those contaminates caused my hearing loss.
We blame god for everything bad that happens to us, and don't take into consideration that perfection ended with creation after sin entered the world.
That's my take on it, anyway.
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On 11/05/2016 17:09, Muggles wrote:

And why did god create such an awful thing to happen? After all, he supposedly created *everything*.
<sing> " all things bright and beautiful, all creatures great and small. All things wise and wonderful, the lord god *made them all*.
Please enlighten me!
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On 5/11/2016 11:26 AM, Bod wrote:

God "created" everything "in the beginning". After creation, God didn't create anything new. Creation was the point at which all the physical laws of the universe were "created". That includes everything.

After Creation, in the beginning, man kind was given dominion over the Earth. We are responsible for "all things bright and beautiful, all creatures great and small, all things wise and wonderful".
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Er.. you forgot the omnipotence and all knowing aspects. IE: he *knew* ahead of the point of creation exactly how things would play out, and, chose to do it anyway. I'm sorry, but, the stories I've read about the creator give me the impression that he's an immature child. So many contradictions in the bible as well as other books on the subject. The bullshit-o-meter pegs when I turn the pages...
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I get right off that boat when it comes to things like "original sin." Why would a newborn baby be punished for something that someone else did far in the past?
What kind of petty, vengeful god would cause a newborn baby to be born blind of limbless?
There's something really wrong with your god - it's all too human. I see nothing of a superior being there.
You also really have to wonder about what kind of god would want to be worshipped. That seems really immature to me.

I've never heard of anyone losing their hearing due to secondhand smoke. Can you tell us more about this?

I don't blame your god for anything.

Both Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens have written extensively on this topic. What they have written is far more eloquent than anything I can write here. I would suggest that you seek out some of their works and read them.
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On 5/12/2016 7:01 AM, Bud Frede wrote:

According to the bible, God "created" everything "in the beginning". At that time all rules of nature and creation were also set into motion.
WE create the newborn baby based on the laws set into motion "in the beginning". Since, sin entered the world, nothing has been perfect, which allowed disease and imperfection to occur. Everything humanity has done from the time of the fall leads up to a certain result - our actions have consequences in our lives and our bodies, and that includes our children.
This world was given to us to have dominion over, and what we have today is a result of OUR dominion over this world, not God's. God gave it to us, and he hasn't taken it back. Mankind in it's limited understanding has thoroughly screwed things up over and over again, and yet, the bible still tells us that God is waiting for us to acknowledge him and come to him, and he will stand by our sides as we deal with this world and help us, lead us, give us wisdom, and live in this world that he gave us.
THAT is what the bible says, not me.

According to the bible, God "created" us in his image. An image is only a 2 dimensional reflection of the original. We are missing multiple personality traits of the original, and because we're missing those traits we make mistakes repeatedly, we aren't perfect, we're slaves to our humanity and our own imperfections, and we simply have difficulty understanding the very nature of a creator God, let alone understand how perfection thinks or functions. When we don't understand something or someone we have a tendency to reject it/them, attack, get angry, muster support so others will also do likewise against the object of our misunderstanding.
Accepting that we're only human means to accept that we're limited in our abilities, and it also means we may have to acknowledge there's something greater than ourselves that our human minds will never fully understand. Humanity wants to admire itself.

We, the creation, want to be worshiped by our peers, don't we? Or should I just say that we want the admiration and respect of our peers? Right? Some people like to earn that admiration and respect of their peers, but other people don't care how they get it if it means hurting other people or forcing other people to do it.
Since we're only a reflection of a creator God, how much more do you think a God would desire his creation to voluntarily admire and respect him? The difference is such a God would do so perfectly, not in a humanistic way, and since we're not perfect, again, understanding a God's desire for admiration and respect is something we have difficulty understanding OR accepting.
This is also what the bible says, not me.

I posted that to Gunner where he was talking about smoking.

Really? Then why did you pose this question: "What kind of petty, vengeful god would cause a newborn baby to be born blind of limbless?"
To me it sounds like you blame God.

Why? They aren't on this newsgroup.
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On 12/05/2016 17:37, Muggles wrote:

Because you might learn something.
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On 5/12/2016 12:32 PM, Bod wrote:

I learn something every day. At the same time I'd rather talk to people on the newsgroup about their ideas and viewpoints. If Dawkins or Hitchens were posting here, I'd be happy to discuss their viewpoints, too.
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On Thu, 12 May 2016 12:46:20 -0500, Muggles

But they would not debate with you - you know too mucxh what you believe and why. They don't know either what and why you believe, or what and why THEY believe.
Read som eof the posts I've sent in the last couple hours - - -
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On 5/12/2016 11:46 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

I have been reading! Great stuff!
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On 5/13/2016 12:46 AM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Some people can discuss. Some people debate when they hear different views. Some people criticize and flame and throw rocks.
A very, very few people can have a discussion on topic, and share points of view politely.
I was in a congregation with a total left leaning Hillary! loving liberal. I don't know if he is typical of that demographic. But, he spent his conversations with me, attacking. "it's your fault." "you started it". "It's all about oil."
You've found a rare and noble type, when you find someone who is polite, on topic, and changes subject lines with the drift. Thank you.
- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus . www.lds.org . .
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I notice you didn't address the petty, vengeful nature of the god you profess to follow.
I also see that you want me to have a discussion with the bible, since you fall back on that right away. Kind of like when you were a child and threatened to tell your Mommy whenever something didn't go the way you wanted it to.
I don't regard the bible as anything more than the first novel. There is some folk wisdom in it, but there is also a lot of garbage. It isn't proof of anything supernatural. People report they see flying saucers too, and we don't think they actually did without real proof. Why would you believe someone saw a "burning bush" just because it's in a book written millenia ago?

There you go, retreating to the bible again.

Trying to move the goalposts? I said worshipped, not admired or respected. There's a difference between them.
I don't know about you, but I don't want to be worshipped. You're sick if you want to be.

Your bible again. I'd wipe my rear on it, but it's not very absorbent.

Ok, I'll have to ask Gunner then. Maybe he'll make some sense here.

Your response presupposes my belief in a god.

So your whole worldview consists of things written in alt.home.repair?
I've read quite a bit of the Bible, old and new, as well as translated versions of the Quran (I've looked at Hindu, Buddhist, Daoist, and Shinto religious texts as well). There are some very interesting things in all of them, some good stories, and I hope that I understand other people a bit better now.
Much of my enjoyment of life comes from my continued education. I love learning new things. I'm sorry that you don't share that.
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On 5/13/2016 9:08 AM, Bud Frede wrote:

ok ... anything specific?

I was just answering your comments above.

The Bible for a christian is the main source that explains questions about God and creation.

What's the difference?

Do you want respect, or admiration?

It isn't MY Bible - it's The Bible.
Your comment about toilet paper seems to me to be quite bigoted and emotional.

How can you pose a question that not only blames God for blind and limbless newborn babies and not have some inkling of belief in the possibility of God's actual existence? You have to initially acknowledge that the existence of a God is possible in order to even ask the question.

Hardly.

So, you've read some of the Bible. What do you understand better about other people who believe it?

hmmm What makes you think I don't share that?
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The question was for you. I asked you what kind of god you believe in that would do things like that.

That they can't think very well. :)
I was referring to my observations about the way people lived, the things they thought about, etc. Their belief in the supernatural didn't really interest me.

You keep retreating to your bible and you refused my reference to authors whose work might teach you something.
I'd suggest you start with "The Selfish Gene." It's quite fascinating.
However, you really don't sound like you want to learn anything that isn't in your bible, so I doubt you'll take my suggestion.
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On 5/13/2016 11:23 AM, Bud Frede wrote:

You could have simply asked me "what kind of god I believe in".

LOL I agree that "some" people can't think very well!

For not being interested, you're having a pretty good discussion about a topic you're not interested in! ;-)

Retreating to the bible?? Not really. I've using it as a reference for any explanations or answers to questions about God.

Passive aggressive challenges really don't inspire me to act upon them.
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Tar-Baby
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On 5/13/2016 12:35 PM, Bud Frede wrote:

Ad homs only show you've lost your argument.
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Or he's fed up of talking to a brick wall.
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A man goes into a library and asks for a book on suicide.
The librarian says, "Fuck off, you won't bring it back!"
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On 5/13/2016 3:08 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:

If someone isn't happy with something, why continue to do it?
He chose to respond with one logical fallacy instead of not responding at all.
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