Five dead in Xmas fire in CT

[trader4]

Did you all here the story about the house in CT where 3 children and two grandparents died during Xmas? It was a large $2mil house owned by an advertising exec and it was undergoing renovation.

Source of the fire is believed to be hot ashes from a fireplace that were placed in a bag and taken to either the mud room or the adjacent outsite trash storage area. That was done before they went to bed around 3AM. Fire started on the back side of the house.

Investigators believe the central wired smoke alarm system was not working. They aren't sure if there were any battery powered ones.

Left me wondering. Why would anyone take ashes out of a fireplace in the middle of the night when the fire has just gone out? I've always just left them there until at least a day or two later. Seems easy and natural to do it that way, no?

[Attila.Iskander]

Probably wanted to close the chimney flue to avoid heat loss But putting hot ashes in a paper bag is not the smartest way to go. Usually a metal bucket would be SOP.

[Stormin Mormon]

I knew some friend with a wood burning stove. Near the stove was a section about 8 inches by a foot, of melted carpet. I asked about that, and the teen daughter did a thorough job of cleaning out the stove (Supposed to leave an inch or two of ash to hold the heat). Swept it all in to a paper bag, and left it there.

The $2 mil home thing is a clue, they aren't country folks, for sure. Damn shame about the deaths. It surely wasn't the kids fault, by any means. And with all the moolah, they aparently didn't have common sense, nor a battery smoke detector.

Steve Spence, owner of ===================== Steve Spence

similar catastrophe. His kids were living in the family farm, as he was out of state for a job. One of the kids took the fireplace ashes out, but not out "enough". burned the house down.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

.

Source of the fire is believed to be hot ashes from a fireplace that were placed in a bag and taken to either the mud room or the adjacent outsite trash storage area. That was done before they went to bed around 3AM. Fire started on the back side of the house.

Investigators believe the central wired smoke alarm system was not working. They aren't sure if there were any battery powered ones.

Left me wondering. Why would anyone take ashes out of a fireplace in the middle of the night when the fire has just gone out? I've always just left them there until at least a day or two later. Seems easy and natural to do it that way, no?

[Jim Elbrecht]

While I'm still shaking my head at the apparent [if the news reports are correct] ignorance of anyone who would put ashes in a bag-- and then put the bag in a trash can-- I can see cleaning the fireplace out when the evening is done, and readying a fire to be enjoyed Christmas morning.

The fire may have 'gone out' in the evening and they had been wrapping and setting up for Christmas morning into the wee small hours.

Jim

[Stormin Mormon]

Fire place ashes, taken out , but not out "enough" lights a fire in a big home. No smoke detectors, or fire alarm. Dead include two grand parents, girl 10, twin girls, 7. Mother managed to get out, but barely.

Ashes out in the middle of the night? Musta been city folks.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

.

Source of the fire is believed to be hot ashes from a fireplace that were placed in a bag and taken to either the mud room or the adjacent outsite trash storage area. That was done before they went to bed around 3AM. Fire started on the back side of the house.

Investigators believe the central wired smoke alarm system was not working. They aren't sure if there were any battery powered ones.

Left me wondering. Why would anyone take ashes out of a fireplace in the middle of the night when the fire has just gone out? I've always just left them there until at least a day or two later. Seems easy and natural to do it that way, no?

[Reed]

A little more to the story.... The surviving mother of the children had just bought the house last year. The wired alarm was just being installed as part of the renovation. The grandfather had just played Santa Claus at a nearby Macy's. Ironically he was a retired safety executive for a liquor distillery.

My guess is they had no experience with fireplaces. Years ago when I lived in a newer "starter" home subdivision, every fall/early winter there would be several garage fires as a new owner would put ashes in a cardboard box in the garage.

Just like parenting, most people learn about home ownership at the school of hard knocks. Very sad for this women who lost her children and parents all in one tragedy.

[The Daring Dufas]

Darwinism? o_O

TDD

[Evan]

Just like Stormin in his other thread you have assumed facts not in evidence at this point in time:

"It was unclear whether working smoke detectors had been installed in the house, which was under renovation, officials said."

Whether or not the system was working is not likely to ever be determined as the severity of the damage done to the home would have cooked off all the parts and pieces of smoke detectors and the home was so badly gutted the city tore it down...

None of the articles referenced in this thread nor Stormin's other thread on the same topic support any conclusion about the smoke detectors being faulty...

~~ Evan

[Stormin Mormon]

When my parents got a house with a fire place, they were very careful with the hot ashes. I'm with you, it sounds like the family had no experience with fireplaces.

We who are still living. We can do our part by sharing our education, and by purchasing and installing smoke detectors for those we love. I've installed smoke detectors, and good quality batteries, for those I know.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

.

My guess is they had no experience with fireplaces. Years ago when I lived in a newer "starter" home subdivision, every fall/early winter there would be several garage fires as a new owner would put ashes in a cardboard box in the garage.

Just like parenting, most people learn about home ownership at the school of hard knocks. Very sad for this women who lost her children and parents all in one tragedy.

[Han]

The Daring Dufas wrote in news:jdfmg8$nn7$1 @dont-email.me:

Ouch. THAT is a bit of a hard lesson. I wonder how the town is going to handle the fact that there might not have been a certificate of occupancy during the renovations.

[Han]

Evan wrote in news:b58918a7-c91b-4a77- [e-mail]:

It was my understanding that the hardwiring was not yet completed.

[Sjouke Burry]

" [e-mail]" wrote in news:b711e650- [e-mail]:

Stupidity is quite fairly distributed accross the population. Checking things like fireplaces, ashes or smoke alarms is boring, no?

[Pete C.]

Stupidity, lack of common sense and ignorance of the PSAs that are on every TV station every fall about fireplace and wood stove safety. I feel sorry only for the children, not for the adults who should have known better.

[jw]

People who have fireplaces and wood burning stoves should be required to take a safety course before using them. Same as people who buy guns. One who places hot ashes in a paper bag, plastic pail, or near a house has to either be a complete idiot, or simply uneducated in handling fire. A metal pail would have eliminated this, and place the ashes out in the yard away from flammables. We're forced by officials to have smoke detectors, which are a good idea, but learning to make a fire should come first, BEFORE the smoke detector is needed.

I find it hard to imagine how any ADULT could be stupid enough to put hot ashes in a paper bag.

And for the record, I've emptied ashes from wood stoves three days later and still found hot sparks causing my metal pail to leave the house quite warm.

[The Daring Dufas]

I'm not trying to be mean or too insensitive but people die when someone does something dangerous and stupid. I tend to get angry when I see that sort of thing happen especially when children are hurt or killed. :-(

TDD

[trader4]

Oh really. What exactly in the above sentence is inconsistent with what I posted? I stated:

"Investigators believe the central wired smoke alarm system was not working. They aren't sure if there were any battery powered ones. "

And though you may not be aware, there is more than one source for news. Here's the report from the NY Post:

The mistakes that took 5 lives Yule log=92s embers left undoused, no working smoke detectors in Conn. inferno

"City official Ernie Orgera said a modern =93hardwired=94 smoke detection system was being installed as part of ongoing renovations. But it hadn=92t gone online in the five-bedroom home, which was built in 1895. And there was no evidence that battery-operated detectors had been in use."

There are other sources, including the press conference with the fire marshal and fire chief, but you didn't see that either, did you?

[trader4]

I saw that covered in a press conference. It was legal to live in any parts of the house that were not under renovation. And at the time that press conference was being conducted they said they were unclear as to where exactly everyone was sleeping.

Sounds standard to me. If you take out a permit to renovate a kitchen and a couple of other areas it doesn't mean you have to move out of the house. What was more interesting was officials saying that in CT no certificate of occupancy is required when purchasing a home. The home was bought about a year ago I think. Had they required a CO, we'd at least know if the smoke detectors were up to code at that point.

Curiously enough I saw one report where the boyfriend who disposed of the ashes is also the president of the company doing renovations. If that's true and he was dumb enough to do the ash thing, God knows he could have also been dumb enough to disable the smoke detectors during renovation.

[HeyBub]

Oh, bother. It's bad enough we've been forced to attend government schools for twelve years, now you want us to take classes on fire safety, gun handling, safe disposal of CFLs, and Lord knows what.

How about just ONE school on common sense?

[jw]

How about these schools teach these things DURING those 12 years! How many of you have ever gotten any benefit out of those trigonometry or calculus classes you took in HS? Not to mention the years spent reading Shakespeare, learning foreign languages, doing art, and many other useless things they teach.

[Ed Pawlowski]

My ashes go into a metal container with a lid and it goes outside. Makes no sense what they did unless they figured they could close the damper. Sad tragedy over a dumb act.