fishing 6 gauge wires through conduit

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So, I am going to install this subpanel. 6 ga individual wires, 3/4" conduit. about 60 feet, 3 turns. Should I install conduit first and fish wires, or keep pushing wires through every conduit piece as I am installing? I am leaning towards the latter, but need some opinions, preferably educated.
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223/172.3/180

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Ignoramus14233 wrote:

Are they long-radius bends, or tight turns?
Put up all the conduit first, but don't strap it down tight in case you need to take it apart if you have trouble running the wires.
Two #6's and two #8 will be a lot easier than four 6's. I'm not sure if you can put four 6's in a 3/4" conduit. I've pushed three 6's in a 3/4" and it was pretty tight. (If you use #8 wires, they have to be the right color; white neutral and green ground.)
Use lube and you should be able to push the wires thru, but I've never pushed more than 20 or 30 feet -- sometimes they hang at the couplings.
Bob
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long radius, it is up to me, I have a bender and a couple of ready elbows.

I need 3 6's, the conduit will be the ground conductor.

No, I have 3 wires: white neutral, red hot and black hot.

That's why I want to push them as I go. Insert wire first, then shift conduits to be snug together.
i

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Ignoramus14233 wrote:

I've done that before many years ago, but if I were to do it again I would always run a ground wire; maybe a bare stranded #8. I don't trust the conduit joints to stay tight -- unless you are talking about rigid or intermediate metal conduit (threaded connectors).
All you really need for a neutral is a #8. The grounded conductor of a 120/240V circuit that only carries the unbalanced current is allowed to be one size smaller than the hot conductors. But if you want to run three 6's, there's nothing wrong with that. I'm pretty sure four 6's is too full for a 3/4" conduit, but three 6's and a 8 is OK barely.
I have two sixes with an eight gauge neutral for my 60A garage feeder, and the chickenshit inspector that gave me grief about *everything* else noticed it and thought it was just fine.
You might want to use an "entrance ell" for the last turn. I have trouble pushing or pulling the wire thru more than 2 bends. You can take the back off the entrance ell and use it as a pull point.
Bob
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Thanks. Great point about the neutral wire, I wish I could think about it earlier. In fact, what I really need for a neutral is a #10 at most (20 amps). I could save a bunch. Maybe I will try to sell my neutral wire on ebay.
i
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Ignoramus14233 wrote:

No, you need a 6 or an 8 if you want it to be kosher.
If you have the wire already, use it. Just buy some 1" conduit instead of the 3/4". And don't trust the conduit to be your ground unless it has all threaded connectors, "grounding bushings", etc.
Bob
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I do not believe a #10 neutral is permitted with #6 feeders. Codes are very specific about permissible conductor and conduit sizes and it rarely is advisable to do otherwise. I think you will need to pull your conductors thru the conduit with a fish tape. Best Regards, Don Young
wrote:

elbows.
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On 3 Jan 2005 02:26:15 GMT, Ignoramus14233

Locally, three #6 wires can't be fished through a 3/4" conduit. After you get the proper size (Google will find you a chart) then run a pull string when you put in the conduit.
Jeff
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This is Turtle.
I run your 2 # 6 wire and a # 8 Green or White ground wire and it says to use 1" conduit but you can cram it through it but it is just hard to do so. Now Also it says it is not suppose to be used this way and doesnot meet the NEC spec.s. Go a head if you have good homeowners insurance I guess.
Now you can still put 3 # 6 through a 1" conduit and be legal.
TURTLE
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TURTLE wrote:

It does depend on what kind of wire. You can run more THHN wires than you can TW or R-whatever. But I would use 1" for a long run with 3 sixes. (I may go dig around in the garage and see if I can find my maximum conduit fill tables.)
Best regards, Bob
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Just to make sure I nuderstand you: you say to use a 1" conduit and also that 3/4" would not be legal. Did I understand you correctly?
i
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Ignoramus14233 wrote:

3/4" EMT is legal for four #6 AWG THHN wires. When you say three turns do you mean three 90 degree bends through which you will pull the wire or do you mean two ninety degree bends and one LB as you indicated earlier? What made you decide to go with EMT instead of the cheaper and easier SER cable? Did you consider running Type MC metal clad cable to get much of the physical protection of EMT with most of the ease of installation of cable?
Even with three ninety degree bends it should not be a tough pull. Just use a quart bottle of pulling lubricant. The US NEC requires that a conduit run be completed before the wire is pulled. Experience has shown that the conductors are far more likely to be damaged if they are inserted into the conduit as it is assembled.
[300.18 Raceway Installations. (A) Complete Runs. Raceways, other than busways or exposed raceways having hinged or removable covers, shall be installed complete between outlet, junction, or splicing points prior to the installation of conductors. ...] copyright 2002 National Fire Protection Association
-- Tom H
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Yes.
What is LB?

Supposedly, our town requires solid metallic conduit.

Oh, I see. I will do that. As I said, I want to use a pulling box (?) on one or even two turns.

Thanks. I want to be 100% kosher on this.
i
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Subject: fishing 6 gauge wires through conduit Newsgroup: alt.home.repair => Ignoramus14233 <= wrote:>So, I am going to install this subpanel. 6 ga individual wires, 3/4"

Install the EMT first, then fish the wire. Do you own a fishtape (yet)?
Up to four #6 AWG wires will fit into a 3/4" conduit at 40% fill.
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-Graham

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Thanks. Do you have some reference material that I could check? Thanks
i
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Ignoramus14233 wrote:

It's in a table in the back of the National Electric Code. I haven't gone looking for my copy yet because I'm watching a movie.
Bob
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Ignoramus14233 wrote:

Here's a raceway fill calculator that I found: http://www.electrician.com/calculators/racewayfill_calc_rev0326.htm
Four sixes is right at the maximum allowed fill for 3/4 EMT. It would be a *very* difficult pull. Three #6 THHN's should be OK. Three #6 THHN's plus a bare stranded #8 ground, or two 6's and two 8's would be better.
Bob
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thanks, that's great news!
i
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Subject: Re: fishing 6 gauge wires through conduit Newsgroup: alt.home.repair => Ignoramus14233 <= wrote:>Thanks. Do you have some reference material that I could check? Thanks
Here is a conduit fill chart:
http://www.westernextralite.com/resource/tables/fill.htm
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-Graham

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For some strange reason that I can not understand, multiple pulls are against code. I have no idea how they'd know you did it or why it is a bad idea.
However... the price of conduit is not all that different between 3/4 and one inch or 1.25 inch. It makes things a hell of a lot easier if you use bigger conduit. Also, those "sweep bends" (not sure if that's the name) are easier than a right angle adapter. Yes, it takes two couplers and a sweep rather than a single adapter, but it's sure easier pulling wire through it.
The first time I ran power down to my barn, I used 3/4 PVC conduit and 10/2 UF wire inside it to protect from rocks. The next time I used 6/3UF and 2.5 inch PVC. Never use "just big enough" wire. Actually, I could have used 10/3 but if I had to redig the trench, why not put in a huge feed? I never wanted to do this again.
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"De inimico non loquaris sed cogites."

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