Filling 20 lb Propane tanks

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Yeah, I gotta question that one also. Gasoline is a complex chemical with a lot of different things going into it's makeup. Propane is a simple compound, C3H8, and only comes in two configurations, propane and cyclo propane (which you won't find in any propane tanks). AFAIK they only thing they add to it is the oderant that gives it the garlic stench (propane itself is odorless and colorless, the smell you smell isn't the propane). Summer/winter grade? I seriously doubt it.

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"Ook" <Ook Don't send me any freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the Don't send me any freakin' spam> wrote:

Not all bottle gas is propane. Many areas use Butane or a Butane/Propane mix. Since Butane doesn't boil (gassify) below 28 degrees, colder areas that use Butane or a Butane mix would need to adjust the mix during the winter.
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LPG (Liquid Petroleum Gas) is a mixture of propane and butane. When it's colder, it has more propane in it to keep it from liquifying. So, when I go and fill my tank with gas for my BBQ, am I getting propane or LPG?
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"Ook" <Ook Don't send me any freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the Don't send me any freakin' spam> wrote:

LPG is a generic term that covers a lot of chemistry.

Reads better the other way around. You *want* the liquid LPG to be a gas before you burn it. So when it's colder it has more Propane it it to help it gassify.

Wrong question. When you go to fill your BBQ tank, you might ask your supplier what the LPG mix is. Is it pure Propane, pure Butane or a mix of the two? The supplier will know what is being distributed in your area.
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That didn't make any sense to me, either. Maybe they put in some butane during the summer? If they are selling propane, it's the same the world around. But LPG might be mixed.
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On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 22:41:28 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@america.com wrote:

Steve B said what I would say.
Also, I have a vague feeling they buy back what you haven't used, but if so, I still don't know the details. Look at your contract.
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On Apr 5, 10:41 pm, snipped-for-privacy@america.com wrote:

Call the new company, and have them pump the tank out, and when they place the new one, have them credit you back the same amount. If you can work it right, they could pump the gas out, remove the old tank, place the new one, and fill the tank in one trip.
Have you contacted the other company to see if they would credit you the amount in the tank?
As for moving the gas with 20# tanks...while it sounds good...practically it isn't worth the effort.
Good luck.
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wrote:

I'm going to say ditto to this post.
The propane needs to be under huge pressure to stay in liquid form, once you start to release that pressure from the big tank into the little one, all you will be getting is the gas, not the liquid form. so, like another mentioned, you would have to flip your big tank upside down, or drain it from the bottom. Much better to just get the new company to pump it out.
as for screwing your old company. If you do open the valve on the old tank after it has been pumped empty, the old tank will need to be purged before it can be used again, so. that would be one way of "stickin it to em"
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Can we have your address, please? I want to videotape this (from a distance) and post it on youtube.
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snipped-for-privacy@america.com wrote:

I would seek out a company that will sell you a tank, the rental scam is expensive. good luck!
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wrote:

It's not a scam, It's an alternative arrangement. He could have found one to sell him a tank in the first place.
One reason renting is expensive is the same reason renting apartments is expensive. Bad tenants do damage that all the other customers have to pay for. One way to do that here would be to vent the gas, pollute the atmosphre, and require the tank company to purge the tank before they can use it again
I doubt the propane company has done anything to deserve bad treatment, the OP hasn't said what they did that he thinks is so bad, and we haven't heard their side of the story either. A lot of people make agreements and then consider it unfair when they are expected to live up to them.

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On Apr 5, 10:41 pm, snipped-for-privacy@america.com wrote:

OK it's been a while since I took physics, or chemistry for that matter, but let's see. In the tank there is propane, some of it gaseous, some liquid. The pressure is high enough to liquefy it at ambient temperature. As you draw off some gas (for your furnace, or whatever) the pressure goes down a little, and some of the liquid 'boils' into gas. Until the liquid is all gone, then when you take out more gas the pressure just goes down.
So if you take gas off the top to fill up a smaller tank, it will fill the smaller tank until the pressure in it is the same as the pressure in the larger tank. I think if the two tanks are the same temperature, it will stop with only gas in the smaller tank. But if the smaller tank is colder than the bigger tank, gas will condense into liquid form in there, gradually filling it up. (As it condenses, more gas will migrate over from the bigger tank.) All speculation here.
Another possibility might be if you could somehow stick your filler tube down to the bottom of the large tank, so that the pressure would force liquid out instead of gas. Like a seltzer bottle. -- H
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Heathcliff wrote:

You're correct on both counts, as a previous poster said, if you cool the tank being filled with ice water even the gaseous transfer will fill the receiving tank pretty fast.
But the tricky thing is making damn sure that tank isn't filled beyound its safe capacity, or when it warms back up the expanding liquid could pop the relief valve and let propane flow out into the surrounding area.
If it's a 20 or 30 lb tank made after October 1998 with an OPD (overfill protection device - indicated by a triangular valve handle), then that should stop the filling while there's still appropriate room for thermal expansion of the liquid. But I'm not sure I'd rely on that valve closing tightly enough to prevent "gaseous filling and condensing" if you left the filling setup alone for a long period.
I'd side with the posters who say, "Leave it alone and let the pros handle it You have to know when to hold em and know when to fold em."
Jeff
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snipped-for-privacy@america.com wrote:

As long as we're into this, can someone comment on whether OPD valves are foolproof?
It looks to me like they could be "fooled" into not doing their job if the tank being filled were turned upside down or lying on its side with the float arm pointing the "wrong way".
Jeff
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On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 17:28:02 -0400, Jeff Wisnia

Float arm? Is there a float arm?
Or are we talking about a toilet? :)

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mm wrote:

Surely you jest:
http://www.propaneproducts.com/cylinder-valves.html
Jeff
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On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 13:19:10 -0400, Jeff Wisnia

I never jest about propane, sir. or propane accessories.

Wow. What a great idea. Thanks.

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mm wrote:

Assuming you were serious about not realizing that they use a float arm to shut off the inlet passage when the liquid propane reaches the safe "full" level, now do you see why I questioned whether they work if the tank being filled is lying on it's (wrong) side?
Jeff
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Did those bastards actually make you PAY for propane when the tank was getting close to empty? and when it was cold outside!?
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snipped-for-privacy@america.com wrote:

Yes. To fill the portable tank, you need to use the liquid withdrawal feed from the bulk tank, not the gas feed that goes into your house or wherever. You need to have the right equipment and know exactly what you are doing.
For a great description of what this entails and how it works, see: http://yarchive.net/car/rv/propane_refill.html
(It probably doesn't make any sense at all to do this as a one time gig.)
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