Fifteen years, and two hours

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About fifteen years ago, I put an AC in my living room window. Some Great Stuff foam around it, and it was fine for a while.
Started to tilt a bit much, so I put some wood brace under it. From the AC to the wooden deck.
"You know, ought to put a bracket under that, and bolt to the trailer wall. The deck and the trailer shift when frost hits, and the ground heaves."
Well, fifteen years and two hours later, I have such a bracket. Not sure how long it will hold, but it's good for now.
Wonder what else I'm delaying? . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus . www.lds.org . .
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On 11/3/2015 1:02 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

The insurance company required a railing for my front stairs. Such railing is now installed and functional.
--
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Christopher A. Young
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Per Stormin Mormon:

Reminds me of an experience I had with some bathroom faucets I replaced.
Stopped by the local high-end plumbing supply store to see what the diff was between the ones I had bought at KMart or someplace like that and the ones they had.
Showed mine to the guy behind the parts desk and asked "What's the diff...?"
He looked at me, looked at the faucet, pointed to a functional equivalent by Delta for about 10 times the price, turned red in the face and semi-shouted "This is *QUALITY* and that is *SHIT* !".... I mean like other customers in the place turned their heads.
Went home, installed them.
That was 37 years ago.
In that time, I have rebuilt the fancy-schamcy Delta faucet on the kitchen sink a total of 5 (five...) times.
The "Shit" faucets in the bathrooms ? One is still going with no maintenance. The other, I replaces the cartridge last year because the action was getting stiff.
Go figure....
--
Pete Cresswell

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On Tue, 3 Nov 2015 13:02:40 -0500, Stormin Mormon

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On 11/3/2015 12:02 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

also.
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On Tue, 3 Nov 2015 13:02:40 -0500, Stormin Mormon

Well, I stalled around the last two months of last winter and the first month of this winter, about installing the primary control unit for my furnace, and finally did it two nights ago.
Now it's starting to appear that it was not bad in the first place, that the thermostat contacts have excessive resistance.
It chattered for 60 seconds before it started Sunday night, but it's been so warm since then, it wouldn't have gone on.
At least I didn't pay for the control unit, got it free from a matching furnace that a neibhbor was replacing.
I'm still surprised that a 24v typically-low-current thermostat would have high resistance contacts tthat would lower the voltage to the relay.
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wrote:

I just checked and with the furnace running, there is between 1.6 and 1.9 volts AC across the thermostat heat terminals (red and white). Out of 24. That really is far too high, unless someone can give me a good explanation.
Late last winter, I thought something had happened to the relay magnet to make it weaker. Sometimes if I pushed on the armature and got it close to closed, I could hear it click when the electromagnetism pulled it the last millilmeter or two. Even though it wasn't enough to close the relay without my help. But it wasn't the relay, it was voltage, lowered by either bad wiring or a bad thermostat, and I doubt it's the wiring.
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On 11/3/2015 11:46 PM, Micky wrote:

"with furnace running". You do realize you're reading across a closed switch?
What voltage with furnace NOT running?
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On Wed, 4 Nov 2015 07:06:33 -0500, Stormin Mormon

Yes. That's why it's far too high, right? It should be zero or close to it.

I haven't measured that, except when the relay was chattering.
But the cover is off the control unit and the voltage between the R and the other end of the 24v xformer is 27.2 volts AC. With the thermostat calling for heat, the voltage between W and the same end of the xformer was 25.6., a 1.6v difference.
When I went to measure the voltage between the R and the W, even with a digital meter, the relay stopped chattering immediately and closed. At that time the voltage between R and W was 1.9 volts.
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wrote:

When not calling for heat, the voltage between W and the transformer is 2.5vac. and between R and the xformer was about 25v.

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wrote:

Although rare, transformers can fail or become weak. Try a new transformer.
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On 11/04/2015 01:08 PM, Micky wrote:

Jumper the thermostat (for heat) and see if the furnace works. If so, looks like you need a new thermostat.
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On Wed, 4 Nov 2015 07:06:33 -0500, Stormin Mormon

drop across the "bad" points in the thermostat. However, he is forgetting there is an "anticipator" in the thermostat. This is a resistor in series with the contacts. He should check the anticipator setting, then try it with the adjustment fully one direction, then the other - and see what happens.
He also needs to check the voltage across the transformer secondary with the furnace running.to be sure the trasformer is not weak (which is my suspision.
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On Wed, 04 Nov 2015 18:12:40 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

He can get another transformer connect it to an old appliance cord, add a few wirenuts, and connect the thermostat wires to it at the furnace. Then just plug it in to do the test. That saves having to remove the old one and all of that. Of course if it's determined that the transformer is faulty, then wire the new one properly.
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On Thu, 05 Nov 2015 07:25:12 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@unlisted.moc wrote:

Thanks for the help, and clare and Anita too. A couple days of warm weather here, with outside chores to do, so it will be a few days before I can get back to you all.
Then the question, will you see my posts if they are in the same old thread, or should I start a new one which is generally against the rules?
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wrote:

It's not so much "rules". It's just sensible to stay with the original thread, or else people get lost. Kind of like a magazine that would have half an article in January and the other half in the Feburary edition! Even tv shows that have "part 1" and next week they have "part 2". I hate that!!! Often I dont see part2, because I forget about it or have other plans....
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On Thu, 05 Nov 2015 18:19:48 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@unlisted.moc wrote:

But don't some get lost by staying in the original thread? The way I read most of the time, the more threads and the more posts at the bottom of the screen (where new threads go), the higher up into the air above the screen (if you look at it that way) the old thread goes. Periodically I scroll up to see if there have been new posts in a thread I've been reading, but no matter how high I go, I often don't scroll up high enough. Days or weeks later I find out someone posted in it, especially if there was a period of days when no one posted.

That would annoy me too.
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I'm not going to give you the answer but I will give you a big clue...
the clue is one word
ANTICIPATOR
look it up
Mark
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On Wed, 4 Nov 2015 06:15:01 -0800 (PST), snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

I don't think my thermostat has an anticipator, but maybe it does.
But how would that account for the voltage drop across the thermostat when heat is called for and the heat is on?

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wrote:

I should have said that the thermostat in the wiring diagram that came with the furnace did indeed have an anticipator. That's not the thermostat I've been using, but maybe it has one too.

And I can see now what you mean, that the resistance of the anticipator would lower the voltage to the control unit.
But it shouldn't lower it so much that the relay chatters and takes a full minute to latch. With the previous control unit, the relay didn't chatter -- it totally failed to close, until I put a weight on the armature, and then as the armature went down, I could feel the magnetism of the relay pull it the last millimater or two, and I could hear it click. And iirc I could remove the weight and it would stay closed until the thermostat turned the heat off.
I think I incorrectly concluded the relay was bad, perhaps shorted windings that made it not as magnetic as it should have been, so I replaced the conrtrol unit with my spare, and the new one is acting similarly, but it chatters.
It seems to me the voltage must be low, but it starts at 27vac which is fine for a 24v xformer. And I have to admit that losing 1.9v, whether that is normal or excessive, still leaves 25.1 or 25.6 volts, which ought to be enough to close the relay, right?
So what do you think is going on?
Does chattering mean that as the armature closes, something happens to lower or interrupt the voltage that is closing the armature, and then when it opens fully the voltage is restored? And that something would normally be the load when the relay closes, except here the load, the furnace oil-pum/blower-motor and the furnace sparker, is straight from 110v, nothing to do with the 24volts.

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