FERC says no more nuke or coal plants needed

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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

I'm virtually sure I already know what your response is going to be.
_IF_ you have credible, specific shortcomings in implementation of security plans or deficiencies therein, report them to the NRC for action. I assure you they will do so with diligence; I've inadvertently been involved in responding from the wrong side of that interaction before as well and can attest that it ain't a fun experience.
Generic crap about light aircraft and spent fuel pools ain't gonna' cut it; I'm not playing any longer.
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dpb wrote: ...

BTW, if you think you do have a credible terrorist scenario nobody else has already addressed; send it in, too. It'll be hard to come up w/ something that hasn't been addressed (and just because you can't find it discussed on usenet doesn't mean it hasn't been; detailed security plans for each plant are restricted information not available for public purview for obvious reasons), but if you were to actually provide something unique it would be addressed.
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Do you always second guess people this way?
Like I said, stay tuned.
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JoeSpareBedroom wrote: ...

No, only when I'm pretty sure I've heard the tale before. This is following eerily similar tack as previous threads.
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The actual answer you should've given is quite different, but because of the way you think, there's no way you could've possibly given it.
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OK - I read Klein's speech. You still tuned into this discussion?
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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

Only if you have something actually substantive to discuss.
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The only solid thing I saw in the speech was his comment that the media should have reporters (or consultants) on hand who have an accurate knowledge of the issues surrounding nuclear energy. Was there something else you thought was important in that speech?
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JoeSpareBedroom wrote: ...

Well, what I've said several times through the thread I think particularly pertinent is another related subtopic of the speech which had to do w/ uninformed/unproductive public involvement.
I would contend that is also applicable to eneral BS statements of the type you made above about utilities "pretending" to deal w/ security issues is a prime example as well as in actual hearings or formal nuisance-type submittals.
IOW, either provide specific instances and/or allegations of failures and or shortcomings or give it a rest and refrain from the equivalent of yelling "fire" in the crowded theatre.
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I think we may have a very different view of what really goes in with highly regulated corporations, and I suspect that for you, faith influences your view of these issues. Either that or you must be very young and have not digested many years' worth of corporate shenanigans. Furthermore, you seem to think that because violations can be reported to an agency like the NRC, those violations will be handled promptly and correctly, without fishy influence from the companies being regulated. History indicates that for many government agencies, this is NOT true.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c197/ancientangler/DilbertBailoutHearing_01.gif?t 41043553
Onward:
http://www.eenews.net/public/Greenwire/2009/03/27/1
Hopes that the lessons of Three Mile Island had been learned throughout the nuclear power industry were floored in 2002 by a potentially devastating breach of a reactor vessel at Ohio's Davis-Besse plant, the same one that had prompted Creswell's unheeded warnings three decades earlier. This emergency was caused by extended leakage of acid-laden cooling water through cracks in a sleeve the top of the steel reactor vessel, which ate away a football-sized cavity in the vessel. It threatened the same emergency loss of cooling water that doomed Unit 2 at Three Mile Island.
The NRC staff had previously been alerted to possible boric acid corrosion issues at Davis-Besse and plants of a similar design. It notified plant operators that they would have to shut down for a safety inspection of the issue by Dec. 31, 2001, unless they had already done so.
Dominion, the Richmond-based power company, voluntarily idled two nuclear units to make the inspection, winning NRC's praise. But FirstEnergy Corp., owner of the Davis-Besse plant, "fought and clawed every inch of the way," to extend the December deadline, according to an NRC investigator's interview with a NRC inspector. The early shutdown would cause unacceptable costs, FirstEnergy said.
A NRC review body voted to overrule the inspectors, and Davis-Besse was given until mid-February 2002 to do the shutdown and inspection. "At a meeting like that, with your boss and your boss's boss presiding, it takes something to raise your hand and say, 'I think, you know, we should shut them down,'" the unnamed NRC inspector later said.
The football-sized cavity was discovered in March 2002 when the plant was finally closed for inspection, six months after the NRC staff's initial alert. A possible reactor vessel rupture could have been weeks away.
Following investigations, FirstEnergy paid a record $33.5 million in fines to settle civil and criminal complaints. A Davis-Besse engineer and supervisor were convicted of felony charges of willfully giving NRC false information about safety inspections, receiving fines and probation.
"The real lesson of Davis-Besse or even [Three Mile Island] is that we must never get complacent," NRC Commissioner Gregory Jaczko said this month. "Neither event was thought to be probable, or significant, until the very moment when they happened."
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JoeSpareBedroom wrote: ...

<SNORT/CHUCKLE!!!!>
Did you miss out the point where I said missed NSS Savannah by <10 years???
...

A 10-yr old event that _was_ handled and regulated and violations punished.
As the then-Commissioner said, the NRC does remain vigilant.
W/ 40 years now of commercial power behind me, I've only got more actual experience to not panic unduly.
Again, if you have specifics of anything pertinent, let the NRC know. Rehashing 10-20 year old stuff is nothing useful or of any interest.
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I guess I missed that. So, you've got the years. How have you managed to miss so many years in which industry manipulated its own regulators, sometimes even writing its own rules?

......proves the agency was manipulated by the operator of the power plant. The only reason NOT to shut down that plant right away was MONEY. No other reasons were ever presented by the operator.

Legalities are meaningless. They're after the fact.

You actually believe that reporting violations to a government agency is some sort of panacea?
Main Entry: panacea Pronunciation: \\?pa-n?-'se-?\\ Function: noun Etymology: Latin, from Greek panakeia, from panakes all-healing, from pan- + akos remedy Date: 1548 : a remedy for all ills or difficulties : cure-all
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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

Because it didn't happen that way. I was there, in the middle the whole time...

That's the point of having a commercial reactor... :)
In the end, the NRC won (as they should have).
I really came back to add a little reality to the over-dramatic "analysis" I decided shouldn't go totally w/o comment...
Even if it had, it would have been a very small LOCA and the HPI systems would have come on and the reactor been shut down.
The comparison to the core-melt event at TMI was unwarranted--the only reason there was any significant damage there was operator error of first shutting of HPI and then following that up by also stopping the primary RCPs.
The one thing TMI definitely _did_ teach was not to mess around w/ the safety systems.
Again I'll return the a familiar mantra -- familiarity and understanding of the reality of the systems leads to better understanding of when folks are grandstanding in their claims. (See Chmn Klein)
Davis-Besse Net Generation and Capacity, 2007
Net Capacity     Generation Capacity MW(e) (Million KWHrs) Factor(%) 889 7,705.802 98.9 (Source, EIA data)
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The important variable here is human fallability and corruption. Try and quantify that.
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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

Roughly 5000 reactor-years w/o an attributable injury to nuclear-related cause in commercial power LWRs in the US alone is more than enough quantification.
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Fortunately for some industries, effects other than injuries are difficult or impossible to determine.
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Interesting absence of evidence is evidence of causation. The corollary for "lack of evidence of its existence is the surest confirmation that the conspiracy is working".
--
"Distracting a politician from governing
is like distracting a bear from eating your baby."
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wrote:

Who said anything about a conspiracy? Not me. This is basic science: Many things cannot ethically be tested on humans. Therefore, the customer is the laboratory rat, but nobody tallies data because nobody CAN.
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Kurt Ullman wrote:

Yeah, Joe will be bringing up Lee Harvey O next...
:(
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JoeSpareBedroom wrote: ...

...
Ya' got me to thinking, Joe...
Damn!! We must have just been incredibly stupid to not have realized the NRC was simply a puppet we just could have manipulated at will...if only we had realized it at the time how much easier all those hearings could have been and how much less effort we would have had to expend (thereby saving untold millions of $$$. :(
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