Fence responsibilty?

Page 2 of 3  


It all depends on the neighbor, how long you intend to live their, and your personality.
If your neighbor is a reasonable sort, and the kind of person you want to live next door to, a capitulation on the fence might be appropriate. I wouldn't let him bully you into paying half of the fence since you will get NO use out of it, but a token payment would be a good thing.
If you want to live there a long time, and start off on the right foot with the person you will probably see most, it would be wise to start off amicably.
If you are the type of person who believes that they are right, and doesn't care what the other person thinks, do whatever you want.
HTH
Steve
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

snip
snip
Our neighbors wanted to put up a fence around their yard & also replace a bit of fence that actually was ours. Some of the fence was right on the property line. Even though they were replacing a fence, they had to get a special variance from the city because there wasn't enough room for a proper inset. We also had to write a letter of support for this project. Permits are required for fences and neighbors have to agree to any variance.
We had wanted to replace the beaten down little picket fence with a privacy fence but hadn't gotten around to doing it. When the neighbors asked us to pay half of the cost for that portion, I said I'd have to talk with DH about it. After I hung up the phone & told him about it, we did a dance of joy that we were only going to have to pay half. I waited until the next day to call them back and agree to the payment & make some requests (we have dogs & dogs & no fence are a bad combination).
I don't know how much room there is between the property line & the fence, but having the fence properly inset would benefit you. I would suggest that since the neighbor's pool is kind of a nuisance, the newer fence would benefit you. Since you have no use for fences, I can understand why you don't want to pay for a part of your neighbor's fence, but I would ask what your neighbor thinks is a fair amount to chip in & negotiate from there.
I agree with SteveB about it all depending on the neighbor. Our neighbors are very nice people (she's a master gardener) and we would do just about anything to keep them happy because we are not the best neighbors in the world. As it turned out, the fence cost more than what they quoted us and they told us they'd pick up the extra cost. We added to the check.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
have your approval before he puts it on the property line, otherwise he must put it just inside the property line?<<<
In my neck of the woods, unless he has you permission he must place it 6 inches inside the line. With your permission he can put it on the line. Absolutely no way would I pay (not one cent) any part of fencing his property. What good is it going to do you?RM~ .
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@mucks.net wrote:

Under most circumstances, yes.*

If you say nothing when he erected the fence, you consented to its placement. Where he puts the fence does not impact your obligations. Either way, you're in for half.*

* Here's the drill. You are responsible for your portion of the cost under the principle of unjust enrichment. At the first moment you detect such a project underway, you must announce your opposition. Failing to say anything, under the principle of "assent by silence," you implicitly conset to the construction and its attendant costs.
Interestingly, much of contract law can be covered using "the fence" concept as examples (the rest can be covered by the concepts of "the bull" and "the pit").
When studying "the fence," you can get off into interesting areas such as "no notice" (the fence was erected while you slept), "total cost" (you consented - by silence - to the idea of a fence, but not one made of polished marble with gold gryphens), and so on.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I have no idea of where the fence was placed. I did not survey it and he did not relay this info to me.

How have I been enriched?

I can't oppose a fence that he uses to enclose his pool. Nor should I have to pay for a survey to assure he is not encroaching on my property.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Never heard this argument - the fence was the other party's and placed in all probability to comply with safety/zoning requirements because of the pool. The fence was in place when the OP took title to his property so the argument you make for "unjust enrichment" has no basis in this instance.

The fence was the neighbors,on his property line and besides was already up when the OP took title to the property on HIS side of the line.

The OP has no obligation for the replacement or maintenance of his neighbor's fence - it is solely the neighbors responsibility. Again the fence was not a new addition but an existing feature of his neighbor's property.

None of this is applicable to the instant case and it appears that it is your intention to use obfuscation as the basis for your arguments!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Has anyone ever thought of this ..............
In order for the man to build the pool and fill it up, the city/county had to sign off that the fence was of legal construction, that it was located properly, and complied with code. And since you weren't around, you have no real obligation or liability regarding the previous homeowner, structures built OFF of your property, or any agreements the previous owner entered into, either implied or expressed.
Since the pool was built and filled with the supervision of the local building department, the city/county has stated by their actions that the fence met ALL laws. If the fence is on the property line, or one inch on your property, it was an illegal structure that the city/county authorized as safe and legal.
Since the future fence will be located on his property, I would either tell him to pay for the thing himself, or offer to pay some small amount to keep the peace. I would insist that the fence be located at least one inch inside his property line so he can't come back at you later. Since he "notified" you that you would "have" to pay half, he may be incorrectly advised, not know the facts, or just be a garden variety putz.
If the fence IS on your property, even half of it, I would thank him for removing the fence, let the city/county know that THIS time you will make certain that the fence is legally located, that you DO NOT want it on your property, and encourage them to do the same. I would still offer to pay a SMALL amount just to keep the peace.
If your neighbor continues to be a putz, just make sure the fence is on his property by notifying the inspector and city/county of your concerns that the fence is PROPERLY AND LEGALLY situated, and let him pay for it all. It is ALL of his responsibility to fence in an "attractive nuisance" and NONE of yours. Is he going to want you to help pay for some pool furniture next?
This one requires the wisdom of Solomon. You have to live next to the guy, but if he is unreasonable, you gotta stand firm. Otherwise, he will be coming up with something new every time you turn around.
Steve
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

The fence guide lines in the HOA by laws for our association require that fences either be on the property line or FIVE (5) feet inside of it. (Double fences are not permitted - cases where two home owners want different style fences along the same boundary line.)
Since he notified the OP that he would have to pay half, I would feel the only obligation the OP has is to notify him that he was NOT paying anything!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@invalid.net wrote:

Learn something new every day. You've heard of it now. Consider this: the fence is not a pool fence - the fence is a property fence.

1. Have you SEEN the neighbors in swim suits? 2. The owner paid more because of the fence (in all liklihood). 3. One can make the case that ALL the neighbors are enriched by the safety features of the fence. The immediate neighbor more than anyone else.

Nope. If it's a common fence - on the property line or close enough - its value is shared. There's a difference between a property fence and a pool fence: one has shared value, the other not.

Hey, that's what lawyers do. Although I admit, I've never handled a fence case.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:
snip

"PROPERTY" v s "POOL" fence these are new distinctions - would you be kind enough to provide your source of these descriptions is it made under some law or just something you pulled from the air. Regardless in this case call it what YOU want to call it, "property" or "pool" fence if it was erected as it appears to have been, to comply with requirements that the pool be fenced - th OP has no obligation to contribute to the expenses of its maintenance or to pay any portion of the cost of its replacement.

Neither have you nor will the OP if they chose not to look at them - you sound like you are overly inquisitive or just plain nosy - do you make it a practice to look into bedroom windows if there are no window coverings on them too?

Unless you have some basis for this comment - in all likely hood you are again making this up as you go along - in fact a property that has a fence ONLY on one side might not be found to be offered with this anomaly as a positive feature, and in this case ther OP stated that they had no interest in fences.

This is not an "enrichment" by a long shot, it is a requirement usually contained in the zoning codes and fencing is normally required when a pool added to a property.

NO "my" approval is not required - depending on whether there is or is not a HOA which determines the conditions relating to fences in general, he may only have to inform me and his other adjoining neighbors that he intends to erect the fence and comply with the HOA restrictions regarding the type, placement and height of the fence. My neighbor or I can erect a fence either on the property line or 3 feet inside the property line, with the approval of the HOA.

No lawyers involved in this case and regardless of what you think or what opinions you may have the OP is under no obligation to contribute to the expenses of the maintenance or the cost of replacement of his neighbor's fence.
With respect to you references to "contract law" you might do some "reading in the law" and find out what is necessary for a contract - in the described case there is/are no contracts involved, especially one of the most significant elements of a contract is missing - I won't bother to tell you what it is since you are the expert, but without it there could be no contract and it ain't present in this case!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Unjust enrichment is the silliest thing I've ever heard. I'm sure he's joking.
wrote:

someone
to
section
length,
have
Either
as to

original
under
such a

conset
concept
and "the

such as

(you
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Either
conset
Horse poop, an attorney you're not.
Exactly how has the OP been enriched? By a neglected fence? You're way off base, I suggest you review exactly what enrichment consists of. The OP clearly states the fence was there when they moved in, they have NO obligation to help unless the pool was a _shared_ pool.
The property owner of the pool has an obligation legally to maintain the fence through code enforcement.
You're not by chance the OP's neighbor by trying this lame brain tactic, are you?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Depending on the local zoning that may not even be the case - the zoning in the last township we lived in only required pools to be fenced if the lot size was LESS THAN 1 acre - a pool on a lot larger than an acre needed no fencing around the pool or the lot!

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

My goodness, the lawyers come running don't they. While all the legal mumbo jumbo is fine, and I do suggest you go to your town hall and find out what is and isn't in the books legally (and it will probably vary from what you have read so far, backset, plot plan, permits, etc, etc.), you have to weigh in on what others have mentioned about being able to live next door to your neighbor. Before being given a notice about sharing the cost, was there any discussion between you about the replacement of the fence? Your neighbor might just be going according to what was done with the previous owner, which depending on you may or may not be a correct assumption. To cut this short, let's get back to the important idea.....livability. Sit down without any agenda's and discuss as neighbors what your feelings are. Costs, maintenance, property lines........whatever, and hopefully you will get to where you stand, look your neighbor in the eye and shake hands as friends. And maybe put it in writing (for you legal eagles)
If your neighbor is a jerk THEN cover yourself legally. Remember.............You have to live there.
Dave
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Yes, livability is important. Get him to pay for painting the portions of your house that are visible from his property. After all, he does not want to look at a shabby house that brings property values down. I'm sure he will want to chip in.
Where do you park your car? Is yours as nice as his? If not, get him to make the payments on a new one. Ed
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote in message

idea.....livability.
feelings
you
hands
want
I wasn't advocating he pay for his neighbors fence, just the opposite. What I was saying is do it civilly, like the neighbor should have done with him. All the points about needing the fence to have the pool, gaining nothing esthetically or property wise, not wanting to maintain it, etc. are all points I would bring to the neighbor, but if it were me I take the high road. Tell him what your thoughts and expectations are, hoping there is an understanding friendly neighbor. But walking in with an attitude, or worse, a letter from your lawyer, (sorry guys, and my brother is a lawyer) will most likely only make matters worse. When I built a 6 ft stockade across the back of my property, abutting two other properties, I built it one foot inside the property line, faced the better side toward the neighbors, and paid for it myself. I never heard a complaint. But then I'm 6'3" and 320 lbs. ride a Harley and have two sons bigger than me. Go figure.
Dave
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

What
him.
Guess I mis-understood.

No complaints from me either, friend. Ed
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
David Babcock wrote:

being a big guy i guess you learned to be civil.. the big ones that i remember who grew up did so, and the ones that did not well someone either shot them or they are in prison now..... young nephew tells me that he cant stand to be around with his cousin, big kid, always picking fights with the other guys his age at bars, pool halls.. i told him to stay away from this guy, as someone is gonna get back at him and go to their car an get their gun and let him have it(in their eyes it will be the only alternative ) , sure enough he got shot in a bar.. so justice prevailed, well at least for now.....
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
The neighbor has pretty much already proven himself a jerk by asking for the money. The only exception that I can think of is that he let his previous neighbor (previous home owner) have full use of the pool and assumed that the new owner was told of the arrangement and was happy with it.

someone
to
section
length,
have
as to

original
legal mumbo

out what

what you

to weigh

to your

discussion
just be

depending on

idea.....livability.
feelings
hopefully you

hands
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Property line fences bring a special problem. How does the owner of the fence maintain the fence on your side without trespassing on your property? This is why many jurisdictions require the fence set in far enough from the property line to avoid that problem. If this is a wood fence, who will paint it? If you do, can you pick your own color?
Since the fence in question is "falling part" I don't see your neighbor as being high in the maintenace area. Has the fence become an eyesore.
My take would be, somewhat apologetically, "Gee, you need that fence bacause of your pool. I don't get any benefit from either your pool or your fence (which by the way you have not been diligent in maintaining). I am sorry but I cannot see a reason for spending my money on something that is not to my benefit."
And finally, I think he is trying to pull a fast one on you. Remember those words of P.T. Barnum abou suckers being born every minute.
Charlie

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.