I think you're probalby in the right, and I'd say you're handling it very well.
If the men did no damage, just wait for them to finish and clean it up. But be sure to tell your neighbor now what happened. A good neighbor would be at least embarassed and would appreciate your not making a big deal out of it.
About the fence, you do need to know on whose property the fence is sitting. If it's on your side, you can insist that they restore or replace that section. If it's on the neighbor's side, you could either toss the wood back over, or (what I would do) keep the wood and fasten it back to the fence yourself after all is over.
This sounds even more like extortion, if one is admitting the charges are likely invalid, but they will have to pay lawyers.
This may sound unfair to you and even to me, but it was either here or the legal newsgroup where there was a discussion of the boundary between extortion and legal behaviour, and iirc this is either right on the boundary, or it's extortion. . I would google groups for those discussions and then check with a lawyer before I made any threats.
Of course things are different in the city. Although extortion might be the same.
This is a project that takes only a few days if they work full-time, a few weeks if they don't.
It certainly is a lot easier to keep it at the side.
Any chance you're going to want to waterproof your basemnt from the outside? Won't you want to pile the dirty on your neibhbor's property while you do this?
A friend got a price on waterproofing from a company that promises to succeed, and iirc, it was 10 thousand, or maybe 20. Even though much of the work is unskilled. I would certainly be tempted to hire temp workers to do this.
They certainly shouldn't have done this. Where were they putting the dirt for the previous 4 weeks? Or were they working on a different side of the house?
That's good.
AIUI, only the owner talked to you and you said no, Maybe he misunderstood you or maybe he just didnt' answer when his employee asked where to put the dirt and what to do about the fence, and the head employee decided to open the fence and put it on your property.
Yes, in the long run, that was the right thing to do. In the short run too.
One day to a subcontractor is like a week. This is true no matter how much or how little they charge.
Its ownership doesn't change. What trader4 said in his first paragraph. BUT I don't think you need to get into this.
Only if it belongs entirely to one or the other of you. But even then, it usually pays to keep one's neighbor informed. For example, I don't think the frame of the fence looks bad, with the possible exception of the top foot (which I can't see very well) So after he's done, and if you're sure you wont' need to pile dirt on his side of the fence, I would nail some planks to side of the fence facing you, and then paint them a nice color. He might want to do the same on ihs side. That's if you want to have a fence. Maybe you don't really want one like some of the later posters say.
I agree very strongly. And while you call it a mess, Lisa, it wasn't very pretty before hand either, was it. Given the close quarters, and the amount of extra work they had to do, I would have let them put down the tarp and use your space from the start. (Was there no other way to get to the back yard, not from the other side of the house, not from the rear. At least you could go though the house.)
Again, I agree very strongly.
I wouldn't do anything Trader4 suggests in this second paragraph.
There is no way the n'bor will be convicted of any criminal charge, and he shouldn't even face a civil suit.
If they are working on it every day it is not raining and it's dry enough to work, they'll be done soon,
When your husband does something that requires a lot of nerve, you can forgive him and try to have a better life in the future, or you can divorce him and live somewhere else. In this case, neither of you are moving and you'll have to live next to an angry n'bor for who knows how many years. I have a semi-angry n'bor and it's not pleasant.
One of you owns the fence. Which of you? You would have to look at the property description(s) and do some measuring or hire a surveyor.
I suppose it is possible that the fence was originally built dead on the property line via mutual agreement between the two property owners but that would be a recurring nightmare.
Since you told the neighbor NOT to put the excavated material in your yard they should not have done so. Since that was done anyway and you acquiesed, you are now stuck with it. Frankly, I don't see the harm as there really isn't any landscaping be messed up/
The war has already been started and it was clearly started by the neighbor. Maybe you will let people walk all over you and treat you like some bitch, but it's not my way.
In your experience are neighbors who pile dirt onto your property and house after asking if they can do that and being told no, easy to get along with?
Are the neighbors still "not there" or are they around, and if they are, have you mentioned the matter to them again, or have all your exchanges been with the workers?
(Leza - keep taking lots of pictures. If there's ever a nasty escalation to small claims court or an insurance claim, you'll need them all.)
If the yard crew is as informal as it sounds, it's easy to believe that communications got screwed up somehow. They do all the time for me with casual labor. If they are improving the property then reasonable accommodations are in order - as long as they clean up. That's where the photos will be handy to show whether restoration of the property has been accomplished.
Nor do I see permanent harm and I can see why they chose to move the dirt the shortest distance possible. It's what I would have done! Of course, I would be mad that I thought we had an agreement not to do it and they breached, but my very smart ex-boss used to always say: "Pick your battles." It takes often just seconds to screw up a neighborly "relationship" for years, even decades. This is where you need to be able to tell the difference between a tragedy and burned potato.
Then I'd file trespass and vandalism charges against you and let you pay a lawyer to defend that.
And you could run that up the flag pole and see how it turns out.
You guys don't seem to read very well.
A claim of encroachment is not extortion. I didn't quite make it to graduation at Bates College of Law but I did stay in a Holiday Inn several times and I survived both "Torts" and "Contracts" classes. Plus I've filed many small claims cases and have never lost one. I'm not the smartest guy on the block but I'm not the dumbest either.
Sure, spend your days and nights calling out the Marines (do they have them in Canada) and escalating the whole situation. Make it an ego issue -- "they can't do that to ME!", etc.
I think not. My vote still is to just lighten, let it go, and move on. It's no big deal and it will work out in the end. They just need some time to finish what they started.
To me, it wouldn't matter if the neighbors were morons or complete doofuses or even arrogant. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Just "keep your eyes on the prize" and give them a chance to put the dirt back in the whole and finish the job.
And, yes, I like the idea of asking them to just remove the whole fence while they are at it rather than trying to put it back up. As others mentioned, it is in a bad location and makes it harder for Leza to do work on her own house -- including if she ends up having to dig out her side on the outsider to waterproof her own basement.
Or, Leza could just get a gun, walk over to them, put it up to her own head and if you don't stop I'll shoot, and if they laugh tell them, Don't laugh, you're next. (okay, I'm not much of a comedian, but you get the idea -- let it go and move on).
I agree. This could easily be a communications error. The only important questions are: will the area be returned to its previous state (or better) and is the imposition enough to "go to war" over?
Yes. If there's the possibility of long-term damage it's a different story, but with the right documentation, if the neighbor won't return your land to its prior state, you can hire someone to do that and then stick them or their insurers with the bill - eventually. Going to court should be the last option.
asked kindly so I said that is ok but I want it to be removed tomorrow.
How sadly true! (-:
seems the person who lived before my current neighbor built the fence but not sure. Who really own the fence now?
Only a survey (or perhaps a notation on the county land records) is going to say for sure whose side the fence is on and even that may not be the final word depending on local laws or previous agreements between land owners.
Nor would I. The many possible bad outcomes seem to strongly outweigh any good things that can come of it.
Not in any jurisdiction I've ever lived in, anyway. If my current experience is relevant, when either neighbor "calls in the county" the authorities are going to look for other violations/problems and the result could be expensive for *everyone.*
The recent parking problems we had in my neighborhood have escalated into open screaming matches in the middle of the street. The county's been out and ticketed everyone for anything they could find, as if to say: "If *we* have to come in to settle your neighbor disputes, everyone's going to be sorry."
Yes. This is a situation requiring monitoring and patience, not escalation.
I have a good neighbor now and it's a much better way to live. You never know when you're going to fall off a ladder and your life will depend on your neighbor calling 911 promptly instead of walking away and deciding to let your litigious ass rot in the grass. (-:
Agreed. I can certainly tell which posters here would make the kind of neighbors that most people seriously hope to avoid.
My neighbor just recently came onto my property, cut down at least 20 branches from a mulberry tree stump that's come back to life, neatly stacked the branches in MY driveway (unused area) and then took them to the curb on yard waste collection day. To some people here, that would be grounds enough to call in Seal Team Six to assassinate her. (-: The reality is she did a lot of work I would have had to do eventually.
You sly SOB. How did you know I was going to say the same damn thing!?
It's almost karmic how what was probably a "feud" fence is working its unfriendly magic again years and years later. This is a case where despite some bumps in the road, the end result promises to be noticeable improvements on both sides of the fence. If Leza ever needs to access her neighbor's land to work on her house, not going apeshit this time could make that future incursion go a lot more smoothly. Of course, there are some people who think if you don't address every slight, imagined or not, your manhood will be questioned and you'll be bitch-slapped for the rest of time. What a way *not* to live.
Absolutely. In my (rational, I think) world it takes more than an isolated single incident that could be explained by a communications failure to brand a neighbor an asshole. Leza should keep that camera working overtime just in case the neighbors *are* assholes. I say it's way too early to tell if they're incorrigible and that doing the exact wrong thing could easily turn them into permanent assholes who will try to screw you at every opportunity. That's no way to live.
Exactly. Keep in mind this is actually a "good" sort of dispute where one party is making improvements to his home. There are other, more unfortunate disputes that require less tact and more "act".
To me, the "call the police" sort of dispute is when the renters next door have a 2AM bonfire in the backyard that causes a large apple tree to catch fire with 10 P&F vehicles responding. And if you keep the cameras rolling while it happens and you might be lucky enough to get your drunken neighbors saying, on video, what "wannabe assholes the volunteer FD workers" were.
The arsonist neighbors were gone in short order, as they should have been and the owner next door was more carefully about tenant selection. Document any bad neighbor situation with video or still photographs, but do it discreetly if you want to hope to maintain good relations.
If you're filming them shoveling dog waste onto your property, you might have to forego discretion, but most times the pictures serve to refresh people's memory or prove to a claims adjuster that the facts were as you described them in your claim. Stuff happens, workmen get it wrong, all sorts of things can make an accident look like a deliberate offense when it's not.
And IIRC, she had some basement water issues. Now might be the time to address them with a work crew already on site. Good relations with my neighbor means we often share the cost of landscaping, minor repairs, etc. We even get good prices on things like roofing because of how much easier it is for a roofer to do a two-fer. Yes, having a good neighbor has some substantial payoffs. This thread has exposed some interesting and rather surprising differences on "how to live your life" theories.
Part of owning a house and getting older is to learn the difference between a tragedy and a burned potato. Lots of people never get there.
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