Faucets: dual vs single handle - form vs function. A solution?

I'm a fan of single handle faucets, because they separate the functions of flow control and temperature adjustment. Still, if you want traditional style, you want to go for dual handle, The disadvantage is that, after letting the hot water arrive, you turn up the cold, but then the flow rate is too high, so you turn down the hot, but then the water is too cold, and so on.
Then, if you want to shut it off to conserve water, you then have to do the whole two-handle dance all over again when you want to turn it on again.
The obvious solution would be a two-handle setup, where one controls only the flow, and the other, temperature. Do these exist already? It would seem the perfect solution for someone who wants the look of two handles with the convenience of a single one.
(I suppose it might be a bit confusing to guests, unless they were clearly marked..) -- Email reply: please remove one letter from each side of "@" Spammers are VERMIN. Please kill them all.
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The obvious solution would be a two-handle setup, where one controls only the flow, and the other, temperature. Do these exist already? It would seem the perfect solution for someone who wants the look of two handles with the convenience of a single one.
Some shower heads have a shut off that allows you to do what you want. I've never seen it on a faucet, but I imaging you can adapt the ideal easily. OTOH, in my 60 years I've never seen it to be a problem.
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wrote:
:
: : : :The obvious solution would be a two-handle setup, where one controls :only the flow, and the other, temperature. :Do these exist already? It would seem the perfect solution for :someone who wants the look of two handles with the convenience of a :single one. : : :Some shower heads have a shut off that allows you to do what you want. I've :never seen it on a faucet, but I imaging you can adapt the ideal easily. :OTOH, in my 60 years I've never seen it to be a problem.
Yes, I've seen it (I think, or am I imagining it?) on a kitchen faucet (flow control at the common outlet). In fact, during the California drought of the late 1970's I imagined I could make a fortune selling it to hardware suppliers!
Dan
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The exist for showers (I have one made by Delta).
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Why do homeowners force themselves, in the name of "style" to use fixtures which don't work well or are not up to modern standards? It took over a hundred years for the single handle faucet to evolve and it's a beautiful thing because with one hand and one motion, you can control both pressure and temperature, and have some idea of what's going to come out of the tap. If you really want to be "traditional", you would be installing one faucet for the hot water and one for the cold (or perhaps just the cold).
It always amuses me when I visit my friends in San Francisco who have these $850,000 Victorian homes and they insist on having these period ugly, claw footed, hard to get into and clean bathtubs, awkward circular shower curtains that you can't avoid having touch your body (Yuck!), and downright kooky faucets that challenge visitors to get water to the shower head without dousing themselves with either scalding or freezing water.
Another thing that I see a lot of is real glass shower enclosures. Glass is beautiful, but one place it definitely does not need to be is in the shower. It always looks great in a new home that's never been used before, but to keep it clean, some people jump through hoops with daily scrubbings and harsh chemicals to keep the soap scum off.
Beachcomber
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not snipped-for-privacy@xxx.yyy (Beachcomber) wrote in

I dislike the "normal" one-handled faucets, because they don't allow independent adjustment of volume and temperature. I very much want to turn my water volume down (or even off) without affecting the temperature setting. For me, the "perfected" units are those that have temperature control that is separate and independent of the volume control.

??? Doesn't match my experience. Glass is a delight, at least compared to fiberglass, plastic, or even tile. It has the advantage of a complete absence of grout lines -- now there's a miserable cleaning job.
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wrote:
:not snipped-for-privacy@xxx.yyy (Beachcomber) wrote in : :> Why do homeowners force themselves, in the name of "style" to use :> fixtures which don't work well or are not up to modern standards? It :> took over a hundred years for the single handle faucet to evolve and :> it's a beautiful thing because with one hand and one motion, you can :> control both pressure and temperature, and have some idea of what's :> going to come out of the tap. : :I dislike the "normal" one-handled faucets, because they don't allow :independent adjustment of volume and temperature. I very much want to turn :my water volume down (or even off) without affecting the temperature :setting. For me, the "perfected" units are those that have temperature :control that is separate and independent of the volume control. : :> [snip] :> Another thing that I see a lot of is real glass shower enclosures. :> Glass is beautiful, but one place it definitely does not need to be is :> in the shower. It always looks great in a new home that's never been :> used before, but to keep it clean, some people jump through hoops with :> daily scrubbings and harsh chemicals to keep the soap scum off. : :??? Doesn't match my experience. Glass is a delight, at least compared to :fiberglass, plastic, or even tile. It has the advantage of a complete :absence of grout lines -- now there's a miserable cleaning job.
OK, to get off topic here (since the subject has been raised) - what makes for a smart shower?
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I am not sure what you mean by "smart" in this context. Here are my preferences:
Materials that are completely non-porous so that soap scum and other showering byproducts cannot soak into the material.
Materials that don't corrode, age and/or change colour with age and hard use.
Materials that are tough enough to stand up to normal cleaning materials and chemicals.
A shower water control that allows me to adjust water volume and temperature independently. If I turn it off to soap myself, and then back on at half volume to shave, I want exactly the same temperature without any adjustment needed.
A shower head that can be detached and used as a handheld nozzle for cleaning shower walls and/or "those hard to reach places" :-)
A shower head that is adjustable for height and angle so that both my wife and I can use the same shower in comfort.
Low water usage without making you feel like your are trying to shower without any water.
Of course, it has to look pretty too.
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Murray Peterson wrote:

I don't follow that. Every single lever faucet, i.e., those that have only one lever on top of the sink do have separate temp/volume controls. Left/right for temp, up down for volume. Or did I misunderstand what you said?
Harry K
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Harry K wrote:

One thing that you have to watch out for w/single handle faucets is cross flowing. Some brands will bleed your hot water over to the cold when the cold has a pressure drop (i.e. flushing the commode).
I've had to install check valves to prevent this. I first found that this was happening when I was sitting at the kitchen table when my daughter flushed the commode at the opposite end of the house. I heard a stuttering under the kitchen sink. Upon investigation I felt the cold water pipe and it was warm. I had her flush again and the cold pipe got warmer still.....buyer beware.
rnc
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I like our single handle control. Unlike most which pivot around a ball-type socket, ours moves straight in and out to control volume and turns to control temp. Very easy to change one without affecting the other.
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"I don't follow that. Every single lever faucet, i.e., those that have
only one lever on top of the sink do have separate temp/volume controls. Left/right for temp, up down for volume. Or did I misunderstand what you said? "
That's what I was going to say too. A crappy older one may change temp somewhat as you move it to increase flow. However any new decent one works as you described above.
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When I wrote that, I was thinking about those single-handle shower faucets that force you to change the temperature in order to turn them on or off. The sink faucets that you describe aren't too bad, although it is still annoying when I accidentally move the temperature setting when I intended to only adjust the volume.
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Murray Peterson wrote:

Aha, I didn't think about the shower control. Mine (single control) has both contros but the volume for practical purposes is full on/off. I can adjust it but it is so touchy I don't bother.
Harry K
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On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:27:31 GMT, not snipped-for-privacy@xxx.yyy (Beachcomber) wrote:
:>I'm a fan of single handle faucets, because they separate the :>functions of flow control and temperature adjustment. :>Still, if you want traditional style, you want to go for dual handle, :>The disadvantage is that, after letting the hot water arrive, you turn :>up the cold, but then the flow rate is too high, so you turn down the :>hot, but then the water is too cold, and so on. : : :Why do homeowners force themselves, in the name of "style" to use :fixtures which don't work well or are not up to modern standards? It :took over a hundred years for the single handle faucet to evolve and :it's a beautiful thing because with one hand and one motion, you can :control both pressure and temperature, and have some idea of what's :going to come out of the tap. If you really want to be :"traditional", you would be installing one faucet for the hot water :and one for the cold (or perhaps just the cold). : :It always amuses me when I visit my friends in San Francisco who have :these $850,000 Victorian homes and they insist on having these period :ugly, claw footed, hard to get into and clean bathtubs, awkward :circular shower curtains that you can't avoid having touch your body :(Yuck!), and downright kooky faucets that challenge visitors to get :water to the shower head without dousing themselves with either :scalding or freezing water. : :Another thing that I see a lot of is real glass shower enclosures. :Glass is beautiful, but one place it definitely does not need to be is :in the shower. It always looks great in a new home that's never been :used before, but to keep it clean, some people jump through hoops with :daily scrubbings and harsh chemicals to keep the soap scum off. : : :Beachcomber : OK, what do you recommend for a shower enclosure? You despise plastic curtains and glass. What do you like?
Dan
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wrote:
: :I'm a fan of single handle faucets, because they separate the :functions of flow control and temperature adjustment. :Still, if you want traditional style, you want to go for dual handle, :The disadvantage is that, after letting the hot water arrive, you turn :up the cold, but then the flow rate is too high, so you turn down the :hot, but then the water is too cold, and so on. : :Then, if you want to shut it off to conserve water, you then have to :do the whole two-handle dance all over again when you want to turn it :on again. : :The obvious solution would be a two-handle setup, where one controls :only the flow, and the other, temperature. :Do these exist already? It would seem the perfect solution for :someone who wants the look of two handles with the convenience of a :single one. : :(I suppose it might be a bit confusing to guests, unless they were :clearly marked..) I don't get your nomenclature, but if I did I'd probably understand your post. What is dual, what is single? Personally, I very much favor two separate faucets - one for hot, one for cold. Yes, I prefer if they are mixed before emerging. I don't like to mess with the single controls. They never please me.
My personal solution to this problem pretty much revolves around what I do with my water heater's thermostat adjustment. I keep it at a level where it is perfect for everything except laundry and taking a shower. 10 or so minutes before I take a shower I boost it. Just before I take that shower, I put it back down to my everyday/all-the-time level. I do the same for laundry. This works great and saves energy as well as making life very easy for me - when I want warm water, I don't even have to mess with the cold water valves. My water heater is located at a very convenient location - right between the downstairs bathroom and the kitchen (in the laundry room). It couldn't be more convenient, basically.
Dan
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Doug Warner wrote:

One advantage to the single lever ones is that they are easier to clean around.
Harry K
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