Expensive capacitor

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On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 07:55:42 -0400, Stormin Mormon

buck. Some guys can't resist pinching something,
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On 7/27/2015 12:59 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

go back and start at the beginning, Clare. That was my first solution to her disposal problem. Then, and only then, if that failed, set it out for garbage collection a day or two ahead and the pickup truck with the undocumented Democrats would grab it for her.
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On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 21:46:06 -0500, Unquestionably Confused

A lot of people won't buy, and if it's worthless they won't pick it up, but if they can steal something of negligible value - that's a different story
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On 7/28/2015 6:44 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

[snip]

Which is EXACTLY why I put a nominal price on it ;)
If you put FREE on it, it likely will be ignored as people will suspect that it's DOA. Put a very reasonable price on it and they'll steal it.

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contactors and have them on the way. Total cost was about $ 35 total for both pieces.
If the thing holds out for a week I should be in good shape on that. Now I have spares , I doubt I will ever have to replace either of those.
All this must be part of Murphy's law.
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I realize Ebay has gotten a lotta bad press in the last few yrs. I even quit selling cuz of their tightened rules for small sellers. But! ....ebay may be the way to go. My EZGO golf cart charger went belly up. I supected the transformer and my shop manual testing procedure confirmed it. New transformer? Try almost $700!!
No way I could afford that much, so looked on ebay. I found an older model complete charger that claimed it worked for only $125. More amazing, the fellow I bought it from paid the shipping. This sucker weighs about 30-40 lbs! So far, this unit has been working, fine, for the last yr and I saved almost $600. Go ebay! ;)
nb
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wrote:

I thought $ 700 for a charging transformer was way too much and a whole charger should be a lot less. Other than being probalby 36 or 24 volts is there anything different than a normal car charger ?
I have not tried selling on ebay, so can not say about that part.
Living in a small town and with the price of gas being what it is, I can often find things on ebay cheaper than I can spend time and effort of driving to a larger town 40 miles away to where there may be a supply company.
I bought some carborator rebuilding kits for my weedeater and chain saws off ebay. I think they were less than $ 7 each counting shipping. By ordreing 3 items from one place, I got a 4th item free.
Unless I need it right away, I often look on ebay and Amazon for things. Usually I can get them for the same as store prices or less, but with free shiping. Just bought 2 TV sets. One for me and one to give for a birthday present. Ordred them from Best Buy as the shipping was free and I would have had to drive over 30 miles each way to the nearest BB. Then I could not be sure they would stock that modle. Shipping time was less than a week.
One day the local stores are going to go away just because of all the on line ordering.
I don't know how it is now, but years ago many times a person could not walk in off the street and buy something. I went with a friend to a boat motor supply house. A fellow walked in off the street and needed a small part, they could or would not sell him the part. My friend bought the part and resold it to the fellow for what it cost. Normally he would have marked it up about double.
For a good number of years my mother was a book keeper at a local electrical supply company. I could get anyting they had for their cost plus 10%. I don't recall the numbers, but they had 3 other prices starting at cost plus 30% and going up depending on how much business the others did with them.
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I'm jes relating the prices I came across for this huge xformer. True, I could buy a brand new digital charger for around $350, but that's still almost triple what I finally paid.

I understand. I live 100 mi from the nearest urban center. I've become quite proficient at online buying. ;)
nb
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On 7/26/2015 12:01 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

satisfied, and that's what counts.
Yes, having parts on hand nearly guarantees not needing them.
Nearly.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
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On Sunday, July 26, 2015 at 6:40:13 PM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:

I wonder what would happen if a customer refused to pay the $369 and it wound up in small claims court. It would be an interesting case, how far you can jack a price for a $20 common part that is widely available. Courts generally don't want to get involved in what's a fair price and I think in this case the tech would win, because he told Ralph the price before he put it in and Ralph agreed to it. But I wonder what would happen where the customer didn't know the price or agree to it before it was done? Seems there has to be some limit on what they can jack part prices up to. Suppose they told you the $20 cap was $500, $1000, etc?
Also, I'm not clear on what the final price for everything was. I think Ralph is saying it was $89 for the call, $369 for the cap, plus another $100 to clean the coils. That would be $558?
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On 7/27/2015 8:55 AM, trader_4 wrote:

When people free market generators and such after a hurricane, people scream about price gouging. And the courts appear to take a stand, then.
I've heard (not living in hurricane country) that the gas stations can't charge more for hurricane gas. No incentive to put in a generator, so they do not. When the hurricane comes through, the gas is same price, but the store is closed and the pumps won't pump. All the people who need gasoline are unable to find any.
Same deal with generators, not worth the bother.
--
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Christopher A. Young
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On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 9:28:45 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Agree with the observations. But some places have laws that specifically cover natural disasters, emergency situations, etc and it's only in those cases that I've heard of those "price gouging" laws applying. I agree, it doesn't make sense to me. If someone wants to load up a truck, drive 3 states over, stay up at night selling them, I have no problem with them setting the price at whatever they want. It serves a perfectly valid economic purpose, it encourages people to bring in water, food, generators, etc.
It's also hard to imagine that the local hardware store is going to suddenly jack up the price of generators and batteries. The gain isn't worth the bad publicity, alienating customers, etc. Some businesses would do it, but it's not the widespread issue that the typicl lib, ant-business types want to make it out to be.
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It is different is an emergency and jacking up the prices. I don't know how it is now at the baseball games, but a number of years ago I took the family to see a major league baseball game. The water,soft drinks,and beer was all the same price at about $ 4 each in the stands. At that time you could get between 12 and 24 bottles for the same price in the stores. That is way out of line, but no one had to pay for it if they did not want to. Found out later you could bring in your own drinks if in plastic bottles and a small cooler if you wanted to. Did that the next year.
Most of the time when I have had something done, they usually tell me the price of the parts and things and ask if I want it done. Knowing full well that 99% of the people will say go ahead.
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You have it correct. I was told it would be $ 89 for the man to come out and check the problem. He told me they had 5 levels of standard charges and the one to replace the capacitor was $ 369. I could have let him go on his way and replaced the capacitor myself. Being on a Saturday morning and no parts I told him to go ahead. With this he did hook up the gauges and thermocouples to the unit to give it a better checkout. Everything looked good.
He then said something about cleaning the coils, doing what they call a tune up for a standard $ 100 aditional charge. Told him to go ahead. For what it is worth the head pressure dropped from about 200 psi to 150 psi. This is for a R-22 unit and it was about 90 deg outside at the time and pushing 80 deg inside. It could have been the dirt or the cool water on the coils that dropped the pressure. Like I told the man, I know enough about the system to be dangerous. I did get the required cards to work on all kinds of refregeration systems where I worked. Did not have much practical experiance with them as the mechanics did most of the work and about all I did was hook up the wires to the motor or replace some control parts. All the cards do is certify that you know the basic rules not to let out the refregerant in the air.
The whole charge was around $ 558. The service man explained to me that people don't seem to balk at paying prices for parts nearly as if they would charge $ 300 to come out and then $ 50 for the part.
My dad worked at an appliance store and mother was a bookkeeper for the same store, so I know a little about how things work out.
For a week-end and the work he did and the education I got, I am ok with the total. I do have a capacitor and contactor on order from ebay incase either go out. Total for them was less than $ 35 shipped.
If it had been just me I would have looked the thing over and if I could not have found the problem or needed a part waited to Monday , but I have to keep the wife happy no matter what the cost..Most on here would probably do the same.
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On 7/27/2015 9:49 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

You're a good husband. :)
--
Maggie

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I admitt that I know very little about the temp/press curves and charts, but I looked at a chart and it seems to show that at 90 deg F the r-22 should be about 168 and the r-401 should be around 273. Did not see the r-12 in the chart, but that is mainly used in cars and not in home systems.
It may not have been 90 deg at the time I looked at the gauges but should have close to it, but unless I looked at the gauges wrong (I know they have several scales on them,but was looking at the outside one and thought it was psi) that is what they had. The coils could have been somewhat cooler when I looked at them after he cleaned them as they may have been wet and the water on them was cooler than the air as it came out of my well. The surge tank is about 5 gallons and is under the house so it was in the cool.
I know the system is r-22 as that is what I wanted put in at the time. I could have had either the 401 or r-22. I know r-22 was on the way out, but had a container of that gas if I needed it. I looked on the side of the unit and the name plate says r-22.
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I don't think I mentioned it, but the system is a Trane Heat Pump. It is a 14 on the efficency number or whatever they call that number. The inside coils were clean, he did clean them while doing the outside cleaning. The filter is clean. He thought I had changed it before he arrrived. It was put in about the first of the month. I use the inexpensive ones and change them every 2 months. Even at that they don't look dirty. don't have any animals or children in the house.
I don't recall the temperatures of the pipe comming off the high pressure side going to the evaporator but thought they did not feel hot compaired to the ones on other refrigeration units. He did hook up some thermocouples to the lines and said I had 18 deg of superheat and 10 deg of sub cool. I don't recall what that actually means from the very limiated exposuer I have had to the systems. He did put some theromomiters in the inlet and outlet and said that was ok, but don't recall what he said it was.
I am in the middle of NC and like you said on many days it is easy to tell if the unit is working by the ammount of water running out the drain.
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Ok on the SEER. I could not recall if SEER or some other leters were the one for the cooling.
I am not sure what the coils have on them to help get rid of the heat. The condensing unit fan only runs at one speed as far as I know. The one on the air handler changes speeds. I don't think it is a true variable speed, but has several preset speeds.
I think the speeds of the fans are really just a way to go to a larger seer number. From what I read about 10 years ago when looking to put in a new heat pump it seemed that anything above a rating of 14 was really a waste of money. YOu may save a few dollars on power,but the price jump would take years to pay back.
I understand about controling the head pressure to some extent. The refregeration units at work had water cooled condensers and a valve on the water to help control the head pressure. I guess that it opened up more as the coils got dirty. Then the thing would shut down on high head pressure and the mechanic would have to clean out the heat exchanger. I had forgoten about that. As I said I know a little about the stuff, but not a whole lot and it has been way over 3 years ago that I last saw one.
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On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 9:03:28 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
From what I read about 10 years ago when looking to put in a new

I went through that analysis about 4 years ago and came to the same conclusion for my AC. I got a 14 SEER too. It's not hot enough here in NJ, nor are our electric rates high enough to get a reasonable pay back. The only thing I might reconsider paying more for would be a two stage, so that it can run more on days where you just need it to take some humidity out. But even that isn't really an issue here. If I drop the temp 1 or 2 deg, it's enough to get the humidity down enough.
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Glad to see someone in agreement that going above 14 seer at the time was going to take too long for the payback.
The two stage would be nice and as someone mentioned a 2 speed or variatable speed on the outside fan. I don't recall those being mentioned when the system was installed. As humid as it is around here, at 85 deg outside you sweat and hard to get cool. The air needs to run a lot to get rid of that humidity without cooling down too much. Then it may hit high 90's and we need more cooling than the smaller unit can provide. Whoever sized my unit (2.5 tons) seems to have it about right for around here. The thing runs a lot when it is over 95, but runs enough at 85 deg to knock much of the humidity out .
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