evaporative air coolers?

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Hello;
I realize this has nothing to do with repair, but the other alt.home.* groups seem to either be near-dead and/or also inappropriate ...
Anyone have an experience with an evaporative air cooler, that they can relate? An example would be the CoolAir 4000 air cooler:
http://www.coolair4000.com /
I'm looking for an alternative to an air conditioning unit to lower the temperature of a 260 sq.ft. room by about 10 degrees.
Thanks in advance.
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Eeeww. Not that one. More hype than specs.

In what part of the country? Nearest city?
Nick
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Where do you live and what's your climate? If you have humidity, evap's don't work. They are effective in dry climes (20% or less relative humidity). I can't comment on the cooler you linked. We've used evaps for years here in NM but our typical summers are quite dry (until the Monsoon season and then the coolers are pretty worthless). Cheers, cc
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On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 09:35:46 -0600, "James \\"Cubby\\" Culbertson"

Itt is worth noting that afaict, the ad for that one says nothing about its effectiveness depending on where one lives. It says nothing about where the ones are located that they used to get the average 12 to 20 degree drop in temperature. They might be all in New Mexico, Nevada, and Death Valley. They sure don't work in Maryland. The URL looks dishonest to me.

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"Q. How effective is the evaporative cooling? A. On the average, the CoolAir 4000 can lower the temperature 12-20 degrees. A great deal depends on the humidity in the air. Evaporative coolers work best when outside humidity is below 50%. "
From the ad page. Read with attention to detail, they hide the details.
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On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 10:59:06 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

Thank you. I missed that and it's in print the same size as the other questions.
Of course it is artfully phrased. "Best when ...below 50%". Apparently it does really really best when it is below 16 percent, but we won't discuss the area between 16 and 49! Why not say "Works best when.... below 90%"

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On Aug 2, 10:59 am, "Stormin Mormon"

I saw this ... I believe that with my central A/C, the room humidity is less than 50%, so I was hoping ...
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It isn't going to stay below 50% once you start using the evap cooler then.
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Hmm ... makes sense. Also reminds me of some comedian's bit, maybe Steve Wright's, where he talks about putting a humidifier and a dehumidifier in the same room and letting them battle it out. (Though in my case the dehumdifier isn't in the same room. ;-) thanks.
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A small cooler such as that Coolair used along with a refrigeration unit is just going to make the refrigeration unit work harder. The refrigeration has to remove that excess moisture from the air.
The only way a evaporative cooler will work properly is to use lots of dry outside air. To be useful in very hot temperatures it should be capable of exchangine all the air in the house in three minutes. When the humidity is in the 10% and temperature about 90 much less air movement is needed. Most coolers have two or three speeds. And they require open windows. They work great for cooling kitchens in a dry climate. But when the outside humidty climbs comfort level drops in comparison to refrigeration..
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Some of you guys posted about how much an evaporative cooler can drop air temperature. All answers mentioned incoming air humidity is a key factor, that's right! There is something called cooling efficiency, calculated by the equation: eff = (DBT1-DBT2)/(DBT1-WBT1) where DBT is dry bulb temperature and WBT is wet bulb temperature ; 1 is measured at entry of the device and 2 is at the outlet. The wet- bulb temperature is related with Relative Humidity, some equation sets or psychrometric charts are needed to find it from Humidity- temperature data. What I would like to say is that each type of evaporative cooler has a typical efficiency. efficiencies from 30% to 90% were found on my lab. The efficiency does not change much with incoming air humidity Another interesting point is about the ASHRAE comfort zone mentioned by Nick. For Evaporative coolers designes must consider the "Modified comfort zone", proposed by the Eveporative Cooling Institute/ASHRAE; that I found on this World Bank publication; see the link below
http://www.evapcooling.org/resources.htm
EPA recommends very carefull maintenance in humidifiers to prevent health problems. People should know evaporative coolers are humidifiers. By the other hand, dry air irritates throat and increases incidence of some respiratory illnesses. I recommend aircooles without pads; beacuse these tend to grow microorganisms inside the porous wetted media.
Tony Airaquality

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I live in Las Vegas, Nevada, and can give you some first hand information. Before refrigeration, all we had was swamp coolers. It was better than being outside in the heat, and at night, temperatures were good for sleeping. That said, they have lots of limitations. When it's really hot, they will cool things down, but not like refrigeration. When it's humid, they hardly feel like they work at all. They put so much humidity in the air that after a time, the house smells like one in South Louisiana. Damp and musty.
We still use swampers for a few months a year. Mostly in the spring and fall when we only want to drop the temps a little. Nothing works very well in 115 degree heat. Even a 20 degree drop leaves you at 95 inside. And swampers do not work well at all in humid weather, as we are having now in Vegas during our monsoon season. 40-60% humidity ranges.
Swampers help. But, I think that they do the best for the people who sell them, and claim that they will do all sorts of things they won't. And since the principle they work on is temperature difference created by water evaporation, some of the claims made in humid areas are laughable. Even if you get one, and it works, it won't work all the time.
Steve.
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wrote:

I have a llittle experience with swamp coolers in Las Vegas, also.

My friend from San Diego said he could win at Blackjack, by playing a system. I started studying the system, but then he wanted to leave Chicago a week early and I had barely gotten started trying to memorize it. Three of us drove all day and night and got to Las Vegas in the middle of the night.
We stayed in one room at the hotel of his choice the next day.
Then they laft (the third guy was another college friend of Dick's , going to visit him in San Diego.
Since I was there to make money, and not to spend it, I went looking for a cheap hotel. There was supposed to be one with AC, but I didn't know where.
I found one with air cooling, and I figured that would be fine because as everone knew, it gets cold in the desert at night. During the day I figured I would be at the casino.
I think I paid for a week. I know I was in LV for 7 or 8 days and left on July 5.
Boy, was it hot at night. The cooler was in the hall, only 3 feet from my room's door, which I left open, but the fan was blowing down the hall and my door was at a right angle. It might have been cool in the hall, but it wasn't in my room. (The hotel was built as a large house iirc.)
By the second or third night, I was sleeping in the back yard. Unfortunately, the yard had no grass, only gravel. I sleep on my belly so I put a towel under my face but it really wasn't comfortable.
Because I never got a good nights sleep, I wasn't able to memorize the 3 ten by ten arrays of numbers that I needed for the system (counting tens) so I didn't win money. Like most, I lost slowly. Playing 3 or 4 hours a day for 7 days, on small bet tables, I lost about 40 dollars. 1967 or 1969. Probably the first. But that's not much money, and I never planned to live on gambling, so I wasn't unhappy.
I did go to the fireworks July 4, in a residential n'hood. On the way to the fireworks I walked past a public school and though seriously about sleeping on the grass there. I don't remember why I didn't. I guess I still worried too much about the police in those days. Within a couple years, or days, I realized they would never do anything to me for just sleeping.
Earlier I went on the tour of the Mint Casino, where they explain how to play craps, and show you a bit of how they watch from above the ceiling. I asked this guy if he was in the line for the tour, and he was, and we went on the tour together, and then to a drawing he was entered in across the street, and then he invited me to come out to dinner later in the week. He had his own simple apartment on the strip, behind the Flamingo Casino, and we met at the pool there. He took me out to dinner on one of those all you can eat coupons at another casino. During dinner he told me I was a great conversationalist. After dinner he propositioned me. He offered me free room and board and offered to rent a car that I could use to drive him around, or just myself the other half of the time. When I didn't bite, he offerred me an allowance, and to pay off the 40 dollars I had lost. (Of course I'd already paid it, but I guess he meant he would give me 40 dollars.)
I asked "What would this entail?" and although his answer wasn't vulgar by Jay Leno's current standards, it's too vulgar for me to write.
But now it was 11PM and the big dinner made me sleepy, and I had made the mistake of leaving my swimming suit in his apartment. (My cheap hotel had no swimming pool, and I was too law abiding in those days to swim in the Mint's rooftop pool, where they did check room numbers it seemed. I was hoping to swim in the Flamingo pool, where I think they knew him, but certainly I could have in his apartment pool.
So walking the 200 yards back to his apartment, I asked if I could stay there no strings attached. He said yes. He said I should sleep in his bed, but I said the couch would be fine. He said that it would be better for me to sleep in his bed because then he would know that I was on guard and he would be especially careful not to do anything I wouldn't like. I'm very smart, 1540 on the SATs, but consistently slow-witted, and as ridiculous as this last remark was, I didn't notice.
So he gave me a sheet and maybe a blanket and I went to sleep on the sofa, on my back as I do when I have to wake up soon. Not sure when, maybe 30 or 60 minutes later, I wake up to the feel of someone tickling me through my underpants. "What an idiot, I am" I thought to myself, without moving a bit or saying a word. "We're going to have a confrontation. He's going to be embarrassed, and he's going to kill me.** So what should I do?"
I just sat up without saying anything. He was kneeling on the floor by the sofa and he backed up as fast as he could, ending in a cheap padded chair with arms that was part of his living furniture, but only 3 feet away (since it was all in a corner of the living room). He was scared, and I liked that.
But I still didn't preclude the notion that he would get tired being scared and turn into the aggreessor again. Once I don't trust someone, I don't trust anything about him. I had had girls stay at my apartment, and when the agreement, spoken or not, was that I wouldn't touch her, I didn't. How hard is that?
**Without any special evidence, I've long thought that one of the reason women rape victims get murdered at least some of the time, is they look emotionally crushed afterwards and the rapist is embarrassed and to make the problem go away, he kills her. I haven't looked for info on this, wouldn't know how, and if I were in the field, I wouldn't know how to gather info on this from real victims.
But this guy's story was funny. He said he thought I might be cold (because of the AC) and he was trying to wake me to ask if I wanted a blanket, or a second blanket. Even slow-witted me knew that was a lie. And even if I were cold, I'd rather stay asleep cold than have to wake up to get a blanket.
In order to avoid a confrontation, I told him I was going back to sleep and after he went to his room, I went to the bathroom and got dressed, flushing the toilet so he wouldn't hear my belt jingling on the tile.
I had his number and I should have called him to tell him how lucky he was that I didn't beat him up. It took far far more to get me angry in the old days, at least to get me angry for more than 5 minutes. He did deserved to be beat up, so he wouldn't lie to someone else.
Oh yeah, one of the reasons I was willing to stay there was to finally get a good nights sleep, so I could finally memorize those tables and win at blackjack. But again I didn't get a good night's sleep. I was doubly stupid if I didn't get 9 hours of sleep each night. I think I was leaving the next morning, and only had a couple more hours to gamble then.
Maybe tomorrow I will tell you how I got back to Chicago.

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On Jul 31, 11:35 am, "James \\"Cubby\\" Culbertson"

I'm in Cincinnati, which can get pretty humid during the summer. But, I have central A/C. I'm just looking to cool an upper floor bedroom by about ten more degrees. I'm hoping the central A/C has dropped the humidity enough to make the air cooler effective.
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Even with central AC, I really doubt that evaporative mister thing is going to do much good. I'd suggest looking at air flow from the central AC, or get a window AC.
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Christopher A. Young
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On Aug 2, 11:00 am, "Stormin Mormon"

We had someone look at the air flow situation once, and from the work he said would be necessary to improve things, it sounded like it would be very expensive.
Regarding a window AC unit, I bet the other husbands out there will understand this: my wife doesn't like them because she thinks they're ugly. ;-)
(But after reading these posts about air coolers, I think I'm going to make more of an effort to change her mind.)
Thanks all .....
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wrote:

I get confused when things get too complicated, but lets assume the AC could make the humidity in the house 15% or less. But then this swamp cooler would cool the temp further by adding humidity, which would get down to the first floor** within a day or less, and which the AC would have to work to remove.
Wouldn't this be just as bad as making spaghetti or taking a hot steamy shower in a house with AC? Don't people avoid those things? Because they add substantial costs to running the AC?
**and the second floor is air conditioned too,
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Naw, too humid. Here in the Denver area they work pretty good. Even usable when the humidity gets up to 30% as long as they are moving a lot of air. Outside temp above 90 and the air coming in will be in the low 70s. When our temperatures get near 100 the humidity may be below 10%. And here it always gets cool enough at night that only a fan is needed.
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best advise is to visit someone else that has an evap cooler in your area and see if you like it.
if no one in your area has one, that tells you something...
Mark
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http:/groups.google.com on evaporative swamp cooler will tell you more than you ever wanted to know.
Basically, if they don't sell them at the local bigbox hardware store, you can't use them.
Evap coolers are good for 10 to 15 degrees max and only work when the relative humidity is between 0-15%. Go any higher that and you risk creating a serious mold problem for yourself and they don't cool above that level of humidity anyway.
So unless you live in the desert SW, you shouldn't be using them. Even new construction in Phoenix avoids them because a) they use a lot of water, b) the grass and resorts have bumped up the local humidity, and c) going from 110 down to 100 doesn't buy you much on the comfort scale.
-- "Tell me what I should do, Annie." "Stay. Here. Forever." - Life On Mars
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