Ethanol subsidies and tariffs end

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"Lost in the hustle and bustle of the holiday season, Congress has quietly ended subsidies on ethanol fuel as well as ending a special import tariff on Brazilian ethanol. The ethanol subsidy paid fuel blenders 45 cents per gallon to make E10, gasoline blended with 10% ethanol. The tariff added 54 cents to the cost of importing a gallon of ethanol from Brazil. The ethanol subsidy currently costs US taxpayers about $6 billion per year. Over the past 30 years, the program has cost $45 billion. By taking no action on the subsidy before adjourning for the end of the year, Congress effectively killed the program."
Read more: http://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2011/12/26/subsidies-on-domestic-ethanol-tariffs-on-imported-ethanol-end/
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From what I can figure, ethanol in gasoline is a bit loser, on so many fronts. Takes food out of the food chain, and actually uses more energy than it replaces. And I find that ethanol gasoline gets lower mileage. I'm encouraged, that we're doing less to push the ethanol crap on our people.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
"Lost in the hustle and bustle of the holiday season, Congress has quietly ended subsidies on ethanol fuel as well as ending a special import tariff on Brazilian ethanol. The ethanol subsidy paid fuel blenders 45 cents per gallon to make E10, gasoline blended with 10% ethanol. The tariff added 54 cents to the cost of importing a gallon of ethanol from Brazil. The ethanol subsidy currently costs US taxpayers about $6 billion per year. Over the past 30 years, the program has cost $45 billion. By taking no action on the subsidy before adjourning for the end of the year, Congress effectively killed the program."
Read more: http://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2011/12/26/subsidies-on-domestic-ethanol-tariffs-on-imported-ethanol-end /
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On Dec 28, 7:08 am, "Stormin Mormon"

Think of the children! The starving children, all around the world that have less food to eat because the diversion of crops to ethanol has caused food prices to skyrocket. Funny, I thought the environmental libs were the ones looking out for everyone....

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Most of us have seen the African starvation beg-a-thons where they take the expensive cameras, and go take films of the starving stick figure children in Africa. I've heard that the various tribes in Africa have been using starvation as a genocide tool, for the last few thousand years. The evil black dudes on Jeeps with AK-47 asre doing their best to starve the other tribe. Bunch of blonde haird co-eds show up with thier boxes of food, and bottles of water to just do some good. Clueless, they don't realize that they will have to kill off the Jeep guys first, because the Jeep guys want the stick figure kids to just finish dying, already. And now, the price of food goes up! Zounds! It's going to be more expensive for the blonde haired fair skinned Co-Eds to buy the boxes of food to take. So the Jeep and gun guys can take the food away from them. And they can come home with a good sun burn, and tell how they fed the stick figures.
We should send the American libs to Africa, to teach the Jeep and gun guys to "just get along".
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
Think of the children! The starving children, all around the world that have less food to eat because the diversion of crops to ethanol has caused food prices to skyrocket. Funny, I thought the environmental libs were the ones looking out for everyone....
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On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 10:45:18 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"

What you say is true in some areas of Africa - but even in countries with "stable governments", starvation and food shortages - and extreme poverty, are REALITIES.
I've been there. Even in GOOD times, the average west african spends about 10 times as much of their resources on food compared to the average American - and that is for barely adequate food. In east and central africa it is no better, and in many cases worse.
You don't have warlords in jeeps terrorizing the people in Zambia, Botswana, Malawi,Swaziland, Tanzania, Rwanda, and many other countries in east/central Africa - nor in Burkina Faso or Ghana in West Africa - or even in the Republic of South Africa, yet the vast majority of people in these countries can barely afford to feed and clothe themselves, even before the grain prices went through the roof over the last several years.

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Sounds like you're also figuring that using grain for fuel has driven the price of food grain up. Thus making it even more impossible for Africans to feed themselves.
Manadated corn to ethanol, resulting in Africans starving. Pretty much what I was getting at.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
What you say is true in some areas of Africa - but even in countries with "stable governments", starvation and food shortages - and extreme poverty, are REALITIES.
I've been there. Even in GOOD times, the average west african spends about 10 times as much of their resources on food compared to the average American - and that is for barely adequate food. In east and central africa it is no better, and in many cases worse.
You don't have warlords in jeeps terrorizing the people in Zambia, Botswana, Malawi,Swaziland, Tanzania, Rwanda, and many other countries in east/central Africa - nor in Burkina Faso or Ghana in West Africa - or even in the Republic of South Africa, yet the vast majority of people in these countries can barely afford to feed and clothe themselves, even before the grain prices went through the roof over the last several years.
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Zambia, Has some problems related to a string of corrupt governments that seem to have finally cleared out in the 90s. Has advantage of copper resources. Like much of Africa will be having major problems with AIDs.

is one of the best, no major problems currently (although very high levels of AIDs and the leveling off of the diamond mines has some long-term concerns.
Malawi, 80% of people have access to good drinking water. Still trying to work out of problems of around 30 years of a strong man that ended in mid-90s. AIDs problems. Their major problem is a lack of resources to exploit.
Swaziland, Africa's last remaining absolute monarch, no jeeps with guns, just regular Army with guns.
Tanzania, One party rule with associated corruption until mid-90s. Having some luck with gold production.
Rwanda, This has been a basketcase since before independence in the 60s. Hard to suggest that strong men weren't the problem what with the genocide and all. They have been doing since the mid 2000s, but still a lot to overcome.

Government by coup for most of history. The main problem here, isn't so much poor manage of resources as complete lack thereof. Exacerbated by the political situarion.
or Ghana Again government by coup for much of its history. Even with stability of government, it was one party rule until early 90s. As with a lot of Africa, has had an inability to properly manage gold, oil, bauxite and other resources.
in West Africa -

This is largely related to the overhang of apartheid and political infighting in the immediate post-a area.
y
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wrote:

String of corrupt governments that ended in the nineties??? Kaunda was president from the time of independence in 1964 antil 1991. His leadeship may have been flawed, but as African governments go, the level of corruption was extremely low

But still extreme poverty issues across the board - with no war-lords involved. Extremely high food costs in relation to income - and unbearably high rates of inflation.
Democracy may be a lofty ideal, but in many cases - in many parts of Africa, a "strong man" government is the only viable solution..
"Strong Men" that rape the country are an abomination, as are those who rule by fear and violence - but "STRONG" Men in leadership can make the difference between Hell on earth and just plain misery.
Kagame's Rwanda is, in many ways, a model for developing African nations. Yes, there is a LOT of foreigh "Aid" pouring into the country - but the country is, apparently, making wise use of the majority of it, and Kigali is, at this point, one of the safest African cities, with most of the city even safe at night.
Too bad "african development" has come to be suchan oxymoron.
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

But still mostly related to lousy governments over the years.

Why? What is it inherent in Africa that they can't find a way to govern themselves w/o the strong man?

ANd making good use of the resources they have. Africa, as a continent, has probably done the best job of squandering resources of any continent.

As you mentioned, many are (finally) coming out of it. A LOT of the problem stems from Europeans mucking around all those years (see also the Middle East). When they pulled out, there was often a power vaccum and it was filled by not often the best people. So, much of Africa lost a few decades while they worked things out. You don't just develop a cadre of leaders and more importantly mid-level managers overnight. You are beginning to see some of the glimmers of change for the better. But still many of the problems stem from government ineptitude if not complete corruption.
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That's the $64,000 question isn't it? The same question could be asked of most of the Middle East. Perhaps it's changing there, but only time will tell. Iraq has the best shot, but it's still very questionable there. Afghanistan I think there is little hope for. Egypt and Libya, who knows. Then there are places like Iran where you had a strongman in the form of the Shah, who took Iran into the 20th century, built schools, universities, educated the illiterate, lifted many out of povertyand made Iran a regional power. Look what you have now after the human rights advocates like Jimmy Carter helped under- mined him. The Shah had the nut case extremists locked up in prison or exiled, where they belonged. Now they are running the place and building nukes.
Speaking of Jimmy, I see the North Koreans said that he sent his condolences on the loss of their great leader. And he wished the son success in his leadership. Figures doesn't it? A dictator like the Shah that is at least half way decent and a strong ally of the USA he bitched about. But a commie that starves millions, torpedoes destroyers, builds nukes and blackmails the USA, that's the kind he likes....
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

What you say is amazingly true. But the countries involved don't have a food problem, they have a government problem.
There has never been a famine in a democracy (before anyone jumps, there HAVE been food shortages in, for example, India, but not a full-blown famine).
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On Dec 28, 7:08 am, "Stormin Mormon"

Even Al Gore has said ethanol mandated use in gasoline was a mistake. This is a small step in the right direction. The oxygenate law that makes it required should be repealed. Refiners had always said that they could meet the pollution requirements without it. I was big agrabusiness like ADM that contributed vast amounts of money to both parties to get it passed so that they would prosper.
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Which opens another question. Are the pollution laws reasonable? Are they needed at all?
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
Even Al Gore has said ethanol mandated use in gasoline was a mistake. This is a small step in the right direction. The oxygenate law that makes it required should be repealed. Refiners had always said that they could meet the pollution requirements without it. I was big agrabusiness like ADM that contributed vast amounts of money to both parties to get it passed so that they would prosper.
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On 12/28/2011 10:46 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Reasonable or not, refineries could have met them without the oxygenate requirement.
Laws may be unreasonable as air quality standards are revised at whim of EPA. Something satisfactory today may not be tomorrow.
I've yet to hear of a death certificate where the cause of death was exposure to ozone, second hand smoke, radon - you name it, but EPA says thousands of lives would be saved by tightening standards.
Hopefully, President Romney, will gut the EPA.
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Whatever you say, the air in New York City is now MUCH, MUCH better than it was in 1976.
To answer you more directly, death certificates usually state the direct cause of death, not the underlying (series of) causes.
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On 12/28/2011 12:46 PM, Han wrote:

Of course. I understood that 90% of auto exhaust pollution was eliminated when first legislated. To keep clamping is not worth the gains.
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Even just considering the last few years, the cleanup of buses in terms of diesel exhaust has been remarkable. But there are still old or dysregulated trucks running around ... And there still is a lot of coal burning going on that BADLY needs cleaning up.
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On 12/28/2011 3:38 PM, Han wrote:

Getting off track. Important point is that ethanol does nothing to reduce pollution.
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On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 20:24:44 -0500, Frank

More accurately - it does VERY LITTLE to reduce polution that could not be done at least as effectively by other, more sensible, means.
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wrote:

Well, there you have the major problem with "liberalism". They don't care about cost/benefit analysis. "It's for the children." Hell, they don't even care if a program *works*, just as long as it feels good. Right, Han?
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