ESA-SAFE inspection

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wrote:

Maybe homeowners should just be calling an electrician if the cost of "piece of mind" is not an issue.
There are literally billions of wire nuts working satisfactorily here.
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On Friday, October 30, 2015 at 12:19:43 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

I haven't had a wire nut connection go bad personally, but I have seen some.
I've not used an Alumiconn. So just wondering, if space is limited, would it be easier to fit them into a crowded box?
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wrote:

Short answer, no.
This really comes down to workmanship. A properly made up wire nut splice will last forever but if you get one of the wires a bit short and it does not engage the spring, you will have a bad connection. For your average homeowner, I suggest stripping about an inch of wire, twisting them up tightly (clockwise), cutting off all but the last 5/8" or so, looking it over carefully to be sure it is uniform, then screwing on the wire nut. The listing does allow the wires to be put in the nut without twisting but it is way too easy to have one not being seated right for someone who doesn't do it all day.
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On Saturday, October 31, 2015 at 12:26:04 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

That's for stranded wire, right?
The one failure I saw was on my hot water heater replacement. Since it was a rental I didn't do it myself. But I came back to a house with cold water and a burnt smell in the utility room. The wires had burned off at the wire nut.
The connection was on #12 solid, and the mechanic had twisted the wires before putting on the wire nut, but they didn't make good enough contact, it's very hard to twist solid wire tightly enough.
I put them back together, exactly straight and exactly the same length, not twisted, before I put the wire nut back on, and it was still doing fine when I moved out several years later.
I concluded stranded wire should always be twisted and solid never, but that's just my personal opinion.
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> The

Working at a large company and installing lots of wire nuts of all sizes, I never twisted any wires. The instructions for some say they can be twisted, but not needed. If correctly installed, the wires will twist when the nut goes on. I never reuse a wire nut. I never taped any except when installed on motors or something that viberates. Probably not needed, but just did it sometimes.
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wrote:

Pretwist solid wires too - particularly aluminum. Actually more important than for stranded - which WILL twist with a nut.
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wrote:

No for both but required for stranded.

They probably cracked the wire there.

You need the right tool. It is easy to do with electricians pliers.
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Can anyone show where the companies recommend or require the wires to be twisted ? I bet not. All that I have seen say not required and the videos that show them being instlled do not show anyone twisting the wires together before putting onthe wire nuts.
If done correctly the nuts twist the wires together and will not be easy to just pull off.
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On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 21:58:35 -0400, "Ralph Mowery"

It is not required nor is it prohibited. Bear in mind these instructions are made to professionals. I see them made up both ways.
As for twisting the wires, it depends on the nut. The hard "Ideals" will tend to twist the wires but the soft, live spring models don't. I have taken them apart and found the wires straight and neatly bundled in the spring, that will come out of the cup as often as not.
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They also show using tape which should not be needed. Not sure who made the video, but go here to the company that makes the connectors for the way they recommend doing it.
http://www.idealind.com/products/wire_termination/twist-on/tip3.jsp
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It is going to be interisting in the next few yers to see how well those connectors and another type called Wall Nuts hold up. It seems they just rely on the friction on the connectors, just as the recepticls that have the back stab type connections do. The sockets seem to have gotten a bad reputation over the years. Maybe by some inexpensive knock offs of the origional.
One thing I have mixed feelings about is the WAGOconnectors have a slot in them. Good for checking voltage, but bad as something could get in that slot and cause problems with a short.
I did see a vidio on using a lot of them in wire racks. With the type of mounting, I did not see how the wires could be removed if needed without lots of problems. Working at a company that used lots of instalations like that makes me want a connector the wires can be removed and reconnected without any problems.
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On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 10:20:23 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"

Part of the problem with the back stabbers was the lateral stresses put on the connection when you were pushing the device back in the box. That is one reason why they lifted the listing on 12 ga wire, There is less stress (bending force) with 14 ga., With the splices, it is less actual stress on the connection because you can guide the wire itself while stuffing the box.
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On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 10:20:23 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"

No ULC or CSA approvals for either Wago or Wallnut for use on AWG14 or AWG12 wires

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On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 11:49:13 -0800 (PST), Uncle Monster

They DO look like a good connector - but without either ULC or CSA approvals they are not an option for wiring a building in Canada.
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On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 14:19:36 -0800 (PST), Uncle Monster

Clare may be saying his AHJ isn't approving them.
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On Sun, 01 Nov 2015 18:28:07 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

What is the 2000-1201 connector listed? It is NOT the 221-413 or the 222-413 we are talking about.
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On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 18:13:03 -0800 (PST), Uncle Monster

The 221 (or 222) is not listed on the CSA site, cannot find any UL-C listing either.
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca posted for all of us...

approvals I may have to contact Wago but I have yet to find an Email address for them. I'm curious now and would like to know. Interesting thing about the new and improved 221 series is that they're rated at 32 amps in Europe but in The U.S. it will only be rated for 20 amps. ^_^

Call them and ask and get more samples than you will ever use. You could always use them for traction aids in the snow...
--
Tekkie

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On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 14:19:36 -0800 (PST), Uncle Monster

But that's not for the 221-413 or the 22-2413 which is the device we are talking about.
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Uncle Monster posted for all of us...

--------------------------------------------------------- This message has been cleaned by MessageCleaner.exe v2.17 http://www.RoundhillSoftware.com/MessageCleaner?HFMdqUjAW --------------------------------------------------------- Also good for arthritic thumbs... I have found they clamp the wire very well that pulling it out is not possible.
Does anyone in the business have any more insight into these?
--
Tekkie

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