EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's being tested?

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Winston_Smith wrote:

Actually the fuel mapping would be the reverse of that. Running rich on a diesel reduces NOx because the extra fuel cools the burn. Lean it out and create more heat and you get higher NOx.
This is the reason why 99% of the VW owners bragged about getting better mpg numbers than the EPA tests as well.
--
Steve W.

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On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 22:47:55 +0000 (UTC), Winston_Smith

Yes. The real mystery here is who implemented this and who all knew about it. I think they have to run the cars on test tracks for 50 or 60K miles to verify they system holds up but even if not, surely during development of any engine system they must run them fully instrumented for quite a while to see what the "real world" results look like as well as how well the "lab strategy" works in the field. Surely *someone* at VW must have noticed that when they tested instrumented vehicles on the road they were not meeting emissions standards. It's inconceivable they never tested these "in the wild" but only tested them back at the shop on the dynamometer and the "switch" kept those engineers from seeing that things weren't as they should be.
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On Wed, 23 Sep 2015 19:07:48 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote:

I have to agree with you.
Notice what Winterkorn said, which was that he wasn't aware, "to his knowledge", that he cheated. Hmmmm...
And Clinton didn't have sexual relations with that woman either.
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| Arrests will do nothing.
I don't see how you can look at it that way. If executives were held crimially liable for corporate law breaking then very little of it would happen. It's the difference between *maybe* risking their bonus and definitely risking years in jail. As long as the corporation is treated as an able, non-human party, and punished financially, that's an implicit statement that we as a society recognize no legal or ethical requirements for people doing business.
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Murder is illegal but people still do it.
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On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 18:37:03 -0400, Mayayana wrote:

I must agree, unfortunately.
At this point, we don't know WHO was involved.
Please post when anyone finds out WHO the guilty PEOPLE were.
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wrote:

The Justice Department reached an agreement with GM over the faulty ignition switches. Prosecution is deferred and the GM execs promise to be goodie two shoes. http://preview.alturl.com/ctzff Over 100 people died. I don't think Jeff Foxworthy or Larry the Cable Guy are running the Justice Department.
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| The Justice Department reached an agreement | with GM over the faulty ignition switches. Prosecution | is deferred and the GM execs promise to be goodie two | shoes. http://preview.alturl.com/ctzff Over 100 | people died. | I don't think Jeff Foxworthy or Larry the Cable Guy | are running the Justice Department. |
I'd forgotten about the GM issue. It's hardly surprising these things happen when the executives in charge have no liability. Even the companies often find the deals to be profitable. If a company cuts corners to save $100 million and gets fined $20 million, with no arrests, then that seems to be a good business plan.
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On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 18:32:46 -0400, Mayayana wrote:

Again, let's remember the laws and maximum fines are very DIFFERENT for emissions laws versus for safety laws.
Different laws. Different agencies. Different penalties.
You could be arguing that we should make the laws more consistent between SAFETY violations and EMISSIONS violations; but the fact is they are very different - so - you can't really compare them that way and be fair.
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wrote:

My dad had a 1976 Chevy pickup. It was one of those with the gas tank outside of the rails. GM was supposed to allow an extra $1000 as trade in value as part of a settlement with the government. That deal smelled bad from the beginning.
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On 9/22/2015 8:15 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

GM's answer to any problem was always to buy a new one. I no longer drive GM cars and the associated problems.
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On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 16:04:25 -0500, Dean Hoffman wrote:

You have to keep in mind that there are DIFFERENT laws when safety is involved (NHTSA) versus the environment (EPA).
The NY Times, I think it was, discussed the difference, which essentially said that the EPA actually has more power to fine them than does the NHTSA.
We should look up the details, but, my point is that the laws and maximum penalties are totally DIFFERENT for safety violations versus emissions violations.
Inexplicably, the emissions violation laws appear (at first inspection) to be more stringent.
Go figure.
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On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 00:19:10 +0000 (UTC), Ewald Böhm wrote:

http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/cert/documents/vw-nov-caa-09-18-15.pdf
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On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 22:05:54 -0700, Jack Black wrote:

VW manufactured and installed software in the electronic control module (ECM) of these vehicles that sensed when the behicle was being tested for compliance with EPA emission standards. For ease of reference, the EPA is calling this the "switch".
The "switch" senses whether the vehicle is being tested or not based on various inputs including teh position of the steering wheel, vehicle speed, the duration of the engine's operation, and barometric pressure.
These inputs precisely track the parameters of the federal test procedure used for emission testing for EPA certification purposes. During EPA emission testing, the vehicle's ECM ran software which produced compliant emission results under and ECM calibration chart that VW referred to as the "dyno calibration".
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Jack Black wrote:

WOW, that's QUITE a document!! Thanks for the link!
Jon
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On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 00:19:10 +0000, Ewald Böhm wrote:

Apparently 11 million cars are affected! Basically one in four cars in Europe also had the cheatware installed!
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/23/business/international/volkswagen-diesel-car-scandal.html "the company said that 11 million of its diesel cars worldwide were equipped with software that was used to cheat on emissions tests."
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On 9/22/2015 2:19 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:

Boggles the mind. "Oh shit, we got caught"
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Ewald Böhm wrote:

How Did the System Work? http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/09/22/business/international/vw-volkswagen-emissions-explainer.html
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On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 00:19:10 +0000 (UTC), Ewald Böhm

The most important thing here is that puts an end to those incessant and tasteless TDI ads on TV, with those offensive dirty old women. Good.
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Vic Smith wrote:

There may be others cheating too, just not caught yet. Big corp. mentality like VW cheating. They should be fined $$$ as an example and top guy should do some jail time as well. VW chief said, "we screwed up" So they intentionally cheated.
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