On Jan 18, 11:51=A0am, "Bob F" wrote: ...
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Possible, but I don't see how it could do that and have flowed outside as it did (in the quantity it did) if it was freezing at the same rate as flowing, essentially...
I'm convinced it isn't anyways even close to full of water (or ice) whether anyone else is or not... :)
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First I thought there's no way that much water could run in the house, but at 10 gallons per minute you could get to 100000 in a week. And the house would collapse from the weight.
But there's no way to actually freeze that much water in a week or two of cold weather. There's way too much latent heat of fusion to overcome, plus the house (and the outer layer of ice) would insulate it.
So I'm still calling "BS". I'm also glad I don't have to clean up the mess.
Bob
Not so sure. Once the water started to freeze, it would be somewhat self supporting. We don't have specifics on how long the house was empty and how cold it has been. Where the water comes from can make a difference also. Dripping from the leaking toilet on the second floor my help it freeze faster than water coming in from the main in the basement as the water would spread over a larger area.
It may have also been assisted by the former occupants.
On Jan 18, 12:06=A0pm, dpb wrote: =A0
Yes of course. The water lines run inside the exterior wall. That's where the break is, that's what filled up first. Some escaped and froze outside, the amount that escaped and froze inside may not be much different.
Deja vu all over again....
In the fall a few years ago my next door neighbors here in Red Sox Nation left their home for sale in the hands of a realtor and moved to another state. The house didn't sell quickly and winter arrived.
One morning I looked out a side window of our home and saw this next door:
My ex neighbors had some problems with their homeowners insurance because of a clause limiting the time they could "abandon" the house. They somehow prevailed.
Mucho work to get the place back in shape and it wasn't ready go back on the market again until the fall. I told my ex neighbor that since they already had a central monitored burglar & fire alarm system they should add a low temperature monitor to that system. Or, like we used to do 50+ years ago, put a thermostat controlled blue bulb in a window which would light when the temperature dropped and advise the neighbors to get someone on the case.
They didn't folllow my advice....With not unexpected results. The place didn't sell quickly, winter set in, heat failed again in the middle of a cold spell and a pipe burst.
It took another summer to restore the place a second time, and it finally got sold to new owners before winter.
Jeff
On Jan 18, 3:07=A0pm, Jeff Wisnia wrote: I told my ex neighbor that since they
Is there an easy way to monitor your house via internet. If you're traveling on vacation it still would be nice to know the heat is working.
There must a way to do it, I'm not sure how you set up your house for remote access though. But once you manage that, a web cam pointed at a thermometer would at least let you check what the temperature is.
I don't follow this. A gallon of water weighs about 8.34 pounds (depending on the temperature). So I get 834,000 pounds. You must be using the weight of a cubic foot of water.
Don (e-mail link at home page bottom).
Why burden yourself having to check the web every day? Once you have a central monitored system it is trivial to add a low temperature sensor. And as soon as the set temperature is reached your phone gets a call.
I know they work. I put one in my lowest floor hallway. That is where my tenant is. One very cold and windy night he did not fully close both doors. They blew open and the temperature dropped. I got a phone call at 3 AM. As I was a couple floors up, and it was warm in my bedroom, I didn't believe them. But, of course, once I got downstairs it was obvious what happened.
Don (e-mail link at home page bottom).
That's the weight I got too. Pretty simple math. I double checked and a gallon of water is 8.34lb (rounded figure). So I cant see where that 6,640,000 lb figure came from.
However, even if half the water went into the basement or down a drain, that would still be 417,000 LBS or 209 (rounded) TONS. No wooden structure could handle that. I farm, and years ago I tried to unload a round bale of hay, (which weighed about 3/4 ton). using 3
2x6 boards as a ramp. Sure enough, all 3 boards broke as the bale got midway down the ramp. Then the bale rolled down a hill, busted down a fence, and finally stopped leaving a large dent in an old junker car. Fortunately the car was going to the scrap yard, so it did not matter. On the other hand, the busted fence left a few horses an opportunity to escape and I spent much of the day chasing after them. I finally got them, then spent the rest of the day repairing the fence. Not one of my most brilliant days!!!Jim
aemeijers wrote in news:jhJcl.297543$Mh5.157918 @bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
Well, as they say on the John-Boy and Billy radio show here in NC, "Hey big fella. Lemme hole a dolluh".
on 1/18/2009 3:26 PM (ET) TimR wrote the following:
There is a way to do it.
Pulled out the Pocket Ref, and a cubic foot is 62.4#, and 7.48 gallons per cu/ft. So, that's 8.34 # per gallon. Give or take a tiny bit.
Steve
that spec has been verified and discussed several times already.
I think you're off by a factor of 10.
8 feet * .433 psi/ft is only about 3.5 psi.
How about "a little at a time" as it flows to and reaches the outermost points?
Insulation works both ways.
mess.
I think I'd use a track hoe.
I'm not exactly convinced I'm looking at a house full of water myself;
16,000 cu ft. would hold 998,000 gallons, if I'm drink not too cipher much, or about 8M pounds.But, ISTM, it might freeze in a manner and form to support itself, from the outside in, and thereby escape from expanding to a degree to damage even the windows, because there's only gravity to overcome nearer the center.
It's fun to try to think about. -----
- gpsman
He's off by a lot more than that. A gallon of water weighs about 8-1/3 pounds, so 96,000 gallons would weigh 800,000 pounds, not 6.6 million.
800,000 pounds / 1600 sf = 500 pounds / sf = 0.29 psi.
A liter of water weighs 1 kg. When frozen, it's weight will still be 1 kg. However, water expands on solidification and the density of ice is .917 kg/l. That means 1 kg of ice is
1.0905 liters.Thus, this soon to be demolished house with it's 100,000 gallons of water has 109,050+ gallons of ice has had its foundation pushed out by the freezing of water and will have its fundation sucked back in by the thaw.
Dick
Suppose for a moment that your numbers are correct.
6,600,000/800,000 = 8.25, not all that different from "a factor of 10." 500/144 = 3.47, roughly what I said.
Gotta remember the ice would be pretty well self supporting as a monolithic block with the edges on the foundation walls, and the center beam in the middle. It would LIKELY have frozen in layers as the water flowed out.
There's a lot wrong with those pictues if we're supposed to believe the ice flows came from a house full of water, especially considering it seems to be sided with vinyl siding. We used to do the same things as a kid and got nearly identical pictures: All it takes is a faucet, a hose and a way to position it against the side of the house. Some pictures are worth a lot of lies rather than a thousand words.
Fun to think about though.
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