Emergency advise - Shellac spilled all over

[miamicuse]

What a Father's day surprise!

I opened my garage door today to do some yard work, shouldn't be more than half an hour total, and suddenly I heard a loud "clunk"...I went back to the garage and I have a full can of shellac now laying on the floor. It was on the top shelf of my rack and I have no idea how it fell, could be a cat or squirrel when inside the garage while it was opened...don't know. All I know is when it tumbled down, it splashed on my walls, shelves, tools, tiled floor, some older furniture near by and everything on my shelves and made a huge mess and a strong odor.

It dries quick and I was not able to clean things off fast enough before it. I have been working at it for the last four hours and it's not getting anywhere. I tried water, alcohol, mineral spirits and other solvents. Not sure if any of it combined with Shellac will be poisonous, but the mess is not going away. It even stained outside of my garage where the concrete driveway was about four feet of it have spots all over. Even metal brush does not get this stuff off. I am giving up and thinking I should just go to a bar and get a few beers instead of going to Home Depot.

Any advise if there are any solvent I can use?

MC

[professorpaul]

Well, shellac is soluable in alcohol. Get a gallon of that, open the garage doors, and go to it. You might also try a power washer. That will pull paint off, for sure!

[Doug Miller]

Alcohol -- but not rubbing alcohol from the drugstore (too much water in that). You want denatured alcohol (probably a gallon can) from Home Depot, Lowe's, or some place like that -- it's pure alcohol.

Nope. Shellac is non-toxic. It's the classic kid-safe finish for baby toys, cribs, etc.

The *alcohol* is another story, though. The alcohol used to dissolve shellac is the same alcohol that's in adult beverages, and you *can* become intoxicated from breathing the fumes. Use plenty of ventilation, and a chemical filter respirator if you have one -- and don't drive.

[Nonnymus]

You might want to mention that the ethanol is "denatured" by adding in just enough methanol to make it poisonous to drink. I agree that the fumes can get to you, but I don't know if the fumes of denatured alcohol are as toxic as the liquid.

Nonnymus

[RicodJour]

I never place liquids on top shelves as I've already made that mistake.

Shellac flakes are dissolved in alcohol to make a brushable coating. Alcohol will work, but it evaporates so quickly that it's tough to work with. You can try making a poultice - lay a rag on top of the shellace to be removed, wet the rag down with alcohol and cover the rag with a piece of plastic (garbage bag). Let it sit for a bit to soften the shellac, then remove the poultice and have a go with it.

You could also try one of the citrus based strippers. That'll give you more working time and you won't have to worry about the alcohol fumes and flammability issues.

R

[miamicuse]

Thanks now I have another question. Since it has been four hours since it spilled it has sort of dried on most surfaces that I have not wiped down. Now I am so tired and spent can I wait till next weekend to do this or will the job be much more difficult if I wait?

Also how about the porous surfaces like my concrete floor in the garage and the concrete driveway they are both stained and since they are not smooth surface is there a way to clean those? Mop down with alchohol too?

Will ammonia do anything?

Thanks again,

MC

[miamicuse]

Where do I buy "denatured alcohol"? Does HD carry them or do I need to go to a drug store? Also can I apply the alcohol with bare hands? No need for gloves right?

Thanks,

MC

[Eigenvector]

Shellac is dissolved by alcohol, doesn't matter if it's dried or not, alcohol will dissolve it. It won't dissolve it on contact, it's not that simple, but the age of the shellac won't affect it. If you want to let it dry overnight you might as well, it's been long enough just looking at the posts on this forum that another 12 hours won't make it worse - in my humble opinion.

People like myself who restore WWII and WWI battle rifles use alcohol to restore the finish on old shellac'ed guns, like the Russian/Soviet ones and a few of the Enfields. A quick wipe of the alcohol softens it up and aids in spreading it around on the unfinished portions of the stock and evens out the finish. In these cases the shellac has been sitting on the rifle stock for almost a hundred years, and it still gets affected pretty well by alcohol.

>

[mm]

NO IT'S NOT THE SAME, and the ALCOHOL THAT YOU BUY IN GALLONS WILL KILL YOU, or BLIND YOU FIRST.

AT LEAST ACCORDING TO MY PH.D. IN BIOLOGY ROOMMATE.

HE TOLD ME THAT THE ONLY THING SAFE WAS CHEMICAL GRADE ALCOHOL, WHICH IS 100% PURE AND VERY EXPENSIVE, AND SOLD MOSTLY TO LABORATORIES, FROM LABORATORY SUPPLY COMPANIES.

THAT DIDN'T STOP HIM FROM ONCE OR TWICE SWIPING A QUART BOTTLE FROM THE CHEM LAB to make punch for our parties, but other than smoking pot a bit that's the only illegal thing I think he ever did, and he wouldn't have stolen this stuff if he could have bought it at a reasonable price.

Rubbing alcohol is something like 70% water, and there is another comon version that has less waterthat that, but the safe stuff has no water or next to no water.

[mm]

See my other post for safety issues. Not a drugstore. You'll want a bigger container and they say you don't want rubbing alcohol AIUI there is nothing healthful aboutr rubbing alcohol, except that it feels good when it evaporates, and I guess it helps lubricate the skin for rubbing, bfore it evaporates. And it's traditional.

eVEN WATER will make your hands wrinkle after a while. I never used alcohol for very long, and I know nothing.

[George E. Cawthon]

Either your Ph.D. friend doesn't know what he is talking about, or you didn't understand what he said. Ethyl alcohol is the kind you drink. Scientific laboratories supply ethyl alcohol in 95 percent and 100 percent. Ethyl alcohol distills to 95 percent and that provides CP (Chemically Pure) alcohol. 100 percent is usually produced by distilling against benzene but there will be traces of benzene which you would not want. It is possible to produce 100 percent by other means, but it is more expensive and not needed for most uses.

Schools get the stuff under their license and don't have to pay the alcohol tax so the cost difference between pure ethyl alcohol and denatured alcohol is not much. For non drinking purpose ethyl alcohol is denatured by any of many different formulas and the purpose is to make in useless for drinking and thereby avoid the alcohol tax. Most of those formulas would make you sick, especially make you barf, but most would not kill you unless you drank a lot of the stuff. If you steal laboratory alcohol for drinking you better steal the 95 percent non-denatured stuff.

As for shellac, most home market stuff is dissolved in ethyl alcohol (denatured), but those who mix their own flakes may use ethyl alcohol, methyl alcohol (wood alcohol and the stuff that makes you go blind), or even propyl alcohol (normal rubbing alcohol which is poisonous).

BTW, beer, wine, or most hard liquor booze are not pure alcohol and are not made from chemical grade (whatever that means) alcohol.

One last thought, becoming intoxicated on alcohol fumes from cleaning with the stuff is probably a myth. Certainly doesn't happen in bars and their are plenty of open container and stuff spilled. It never happened to anyone I knew who worked in a lab with 95 or 100 percent alcohol. Anyone, cleaning with 100 percent ethyl alcohol in a small space with no ventilation would have trouble breathing and would have to leave or open windows before they every became intoxicated.

[Doug Miller]

You missed the point entirely, and you don't have your facts completely right.

First the facts:

Beverage alcohol is ethanol. Denatured alcohol from the hardware store is

*also* ethanol, with a small amount of methanol and/or other toxic substances added to make it undrinkable. Apart from the addition of the toxins, it *is* exactly the same stuff, and you *can* become drunk from breathing its vapor.

Now the missed point:

I was warning the guy that the stuff is potentially dangerous.

[Larry Jaques]

On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:07:23 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "miamicuse" quickly quoth:

HD, Lowes, most farm stores, hardware stores and paint stores all carry it for $8-12 a gallon.

Use gloves. You'll be out there for awhile. And don't use a white fabric mask type respirator, use a real cartridge respirator with organic vapor cartridges and do that with good ventilation in the area.