Installing three motion detector outside lights at daughter's house. Power to come from panel in basemen. Wiring on outside of building will be surf ace, either pvc or emt conduit. No aesthetic issues due to location.
Question: How do I change from romex inside the garage to conduit outside the building. Rumor has it that I am not allowed to run romex in conduit (o verheating??). If I do the change-over in an electrical box, it has to be accessible. Not doable in the to-be finished basement with tenant. I supp ose an outside weather resistant box will be required. Any ideas? Also, is there any need for a switch? Three lights, three outdoor switches ? Circuit would be from a dedicated breaker. Lights are so the tenant can walk down a long narrow sideyard, turn the cor ner and go down the stairs to his unit. All help appreciated.
er to come from panel in basemen. Wiring on outside of building will be su rface, either pvc or emt conduit. No aesthetic issues due to location.
e the building. Rumor has it that I am not allowed to run romex in conduit (overheating??). If I do the change-over in an electrical box, it has to b e accessible. Not doable in the to-be finished basement with tenant. I su ppose an outside weather resistant box will be required.
I'm confused. If the Romex is in the garage, why are you mentioning accessi ble junction boxes in a finished basement?
There are many different styles of weather proof PVC junction boxes available so that you can transition from Romex in the garage to THHN for running through Schedule 40 PVC. Just make sure that you properly protect the wire as it passes through the wall.
You could also use a junction box inside the garage and then run your conduit through the wall and use these to make neat turns and connections to the external conduit. They come in both PVC and metal.
formatting link
es? Circuit would be from a dedicated breaker.
orner and go down the stairs to his unit.
I can't speak to the "need" for switch but there may be a *desire* for a switch. Most motion detectors can be switched on by flipping the switch on-off-on in whatever pattern/timing the manufacturer chose. This can be useful for times when you want the lights on for an extended period of time. In this case, a couple of 3 way switches (one at each end of the long narrow side yard) would certainly be convenient.
Use UF cable instead of Romex and you will not have any issues with it being used "outside" (the real problem with Romex in this case). There are no issues with using Romex in pipe (heat or otherwise) if it does not exceed the fill requirement but it can't be used outside.
The only reason for a switch is to reset the motion detector logic and the breaker will work for that. They do occasionally get turned on and won't turn off until you drop power for 10 seconds or so, usually from a short power hit.
I believe it's a misconception about no Romex in conduit... in some situations it's actually required. My house recently passed an electrical inspection and there was /some/ Romex in conduit:
National Electrical Code 2011 ARTICLE 334 Nonmetallic-Sheathed Cable: Types NM, NMC, and NMS II. Installation
334.15 Exposed Work. In exposed work, except as provided in
300.11(A), cable shall be installed as specified in 334.15(A) through (C).
(B) Protection from Physical Damage. Cable shall be protected from physical damage where necessary by rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, electrical metallic tubing, Schedule 80 PVC conduit, Type RTRC marked with the suffix -XW, or other approved means. Where passing through a floor, the cable shall be enclosed in rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, electrical metallic tubing, Schedule 80 PVC conduit, Type RTRC marked with the suffix -XW, or other approved means extending at least 150 mm (6 in.) above the floor. [ROP 7-94] Type NMC cable installed in shallow chases or grooves in masonry, concrete, or adobe shall be protected in accordance with the requirements in 300.4(F) and covered with plaster, adobe, or similar finish.
It's allowed as long as the fill requirements are met, ie the conduit is big enough for the cable used. But I think the outdoor location would require that it be rated for wet locations, which probably means you'd have to use direct burial type cable if you want to go that route.
If I do the change-over in an electrical box, it has to be accessible. Not doable in the to-be finished basement with tenant. I suppose an outside weather resistant box will be required.
If you change over, you can put an outdoor junction box where it exits from the wall. You'd probably want one there anyway even if it's to be able to pull the wire. In which case it's probably easier to switch to THWN wire for outside, use Romex for inside. That is how I would do it.
If you need or want one or more switches, it's up to you. It would certainly seem reasonable to have them. I'd out the switch inside though, but that may not be practical with how you're planning to run it. Reasons for switch is convenience when changing bulbs, if it gets stuck on and needs to be reset. Also many of the motion lights have a feature where you can force it on by turning the switch off, then back on after a couple seconds.
Does one of these replace the front door light. Most people want to be able to turn that light on so it stays on, when company is expected. Most motion detector outside lights allow one to choose between on, off, and automatic by use of a wall switch.**
Or conceivably, one. Though it would take planning for that to work, and even then it woudl be hard. Because I think some lights are turned on by turning them on/off/on and others seem to work in the opposite way, although right now I can't figure out what the opposite way woudl be. All I know is I have lots of trouble getting one light at a time to stay on, and it would be harder with 3, especially if I could only see one of them.
Unless it's against code to put a light on a receptacle circuit, I see no reason you couldn't add each light to a circuit near by. That's what I did with the floods for my back yard. There's a receptacle below the bedroom window, on the second floor, in the middle horizontally. I just went up a foot, cut an opening for a box for the switch, and drilled a little hole from its bos through the outside wall and screwed the floods to a box on the wall. No conduit, no time spent running conduit.
For the side of the house, I have a set of floods where the Romex goes through the thin attic siding, along the rafters to the circuit that goes to the attic. I also have the attic fan and attic ceiling light on the same circuit. I don't see why this would be a violation. I certainly didn't want to run 2 or 3 circuits to the attic when the total load is well under 20 amps. No conduit to run, no time running conduit.
In the front, I replaced the front door lamp with a motion detector one. Some are designed to stay on all night at half brightness, for people whose neighbors insist they should participate in Lights On. But I didn't get this because I thought the other brand was prettier.
**A friend bought a house with a pair of floodlights at each corner of the house. It has a central switch, inside the front door coat closet, to turn on all the lights at once. The wife of the previous owner wanted it. (It also had a remote control and a home-designed receiver and relays to turn the lights on from the car, when coming home at night. My friend, cleaning up when he first moved in, ripped the receiver out without knowing what it was for, and threw it away. First I replaced it with an unrate really cheap remote control receiver that seemed to burn up because of the load. The vendor sent me another one for free, and the same thing happened to it. Then I bought a universal receiver meant for garage doors at Sears, and installed that. I was able to turn the lights on from 20 feet on the OTHER side of the street they live on. I thought everything was fixed, but it's not working now and he mumbled when I asked why and changed the subject.
I have run romex thru conduit many times and it's totally safe and allowed by code. I dont think it would be possible to exceed the fill requrements. You'll probably never be able to get two runs of romex inside a 1/2" conduit.
You can run romex in conduit "for protection" As long as the load is well below the rated ampacity for the romex and only one run in the conduit it is a non-issue and totally legal. Just make sure you have the proper bushings/clamps where the wire enters the conduit
Panel in garage. Romex from panel in garage through basement to location directly below motion light. Conduit up the outside of wall to lamp.
I'd likely put a switch next to the panel (or use switch rated breaker in panel - dedicated to the lights) and then tun the romex out through a foundation bushing to a weatherproof J-Box at the bottom of the conduit. Then THHN or romex up the "protection" conduit.
Option is to run conduit from last accessible J-Box location in basement all the way to the lights with thhn pulled - no hidden junctio required. More work, but possibly better solution.
Although fwiw, I came across one light or one brand that, after a power interruption, would keep the light on all day and all night, and turn it off at dawn the next day. And go back to the setting it had. I wouldn't count on this, however and you still need the switch.
Romex is not approved for wet locations and I think most would consider an outside, exposed conduit a wet location. Of course, you'll never learn the error of your ways because you have me blocked, along with others here because they point out when you're wrong. Especially on electrical.
Simple solution is to run Romex inside, put a junction box outside where it exits, use thwn the rest of the way. You probably need a box there anyway, to be able to reasonably pull the wires. Also, THHN is not rated for wet locations, but most THHN is dual rated THWN anyways. But since you like to mention that you think I'm a jerk and that you've blocked me, thought I'd point that out too.
wer to come from panel in basemen. Wiring on outside of building will be s urface, either pvc or emt conduit. No aesthetic issues due to location.
de the building. Rumor has it that I am not allowed to run romex in conduit (overheating??). If I do the change-over in an electrical box, it has to be accessible. Not doable in the to-be finished basement with tenant. I s uppose an outside weather resistant box will be required.
hes? Circuit would be from a dedicated breaker.
corner and go down the stairs to his unit.
You can't run romex in wet locations, even inside a conduit. Of course you have me blocked, so feel free to keep posting BS.
Ivan Vegvary wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:
That's nonsense. Romex is permitted inside conduit; in fact, under some circumstances (e.g. passing through a floor), the Code *requires* it to be in conduit.
Romex is not supposed to be run in conduit, but it is allowed in cases where "physical protection" is needed.
In your case, the bigger problem is running the Romex in outdoor conduit. Romex is not rated for outdoor use (it has a paper filler).
I would use Romex indoors to a junction box, then transition to individual wires inside the conduit to your lights.
You could use a standard electrical box and just put a blank cover plate on it. If it's mounted inside the wall, it wouldn't look any different than any other outlet or switch in the finished space.
Yes, you could mount a junction box on the outside of the house and bring the Romex through an opening in the back to make the transition in the box. You would just need to be sure to secure the cable before it enters the box, and seal well behind and around the box with caulking so water can't get in.
You already need the junction box, so you might as well install a switch. You never know if someone might want to turn off the lights for some reason (such as star gazing, or some other activity where you don't want the lights on).
Just make sure to use a weather rated switch cover if you mount the box outdoors.
I would put all three lights on one switch. I don't see any reason to have three separate switches.
It's perfectly permissible to run romex in conduit, even where no physical protection is needed.
Agree, that's how I would probably do it too, based on what we know.
That only works if the one box is in a suitable location for the switch, which seems unlikely. But in most cases having a switch sure would seem to be desirable.
Inside a properly installed conduit is a "dry location". and for external use where it is subject to mechanical damage even UF may need to be enclosed in conduit.
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.