Electrical service - 240v line

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On Fri, 01 Jul 2005 16:04:16 GMT, Ignoramus9053

I know what I am doing but may not have described it in a way that makes it easy to understand. If it doesn't make sense to any reader then don't do it. All I have done is to point out that it can be done and I have done it with perfect safety. If the OP is that ignorant about DIY wiring I did give a source (sewing machine dealership) where he can buy a step up transformer that is ready to plug in and use. The transformer cost me something like $20 back then and its a lot cheaper than a 240V breaker and the cost of wiring that.
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A step up transformer would be fine, provided that the appliance in question requires relatively little power.
i
--



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On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 01:54:18 GMT, Ignoramus9053

The one I am recommending has a 200 watt capacity and therefore suitable for most household appliances but not a rice cooker.
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wrote:

Excuse me? What 240V 200W household appliances would those be?
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 13:11:38 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

The knick knacks people (many immigrants) bring over such as cake mixers, juicers, entertainment systems (TVs, VCRs, stereo equipment) , electronic toys, stuff that make them groan when they see that they could have bought the same at WalMart for peanuts. If you have grown up in North America you won't encounter them. You'd have bought stuff that you can plug into your household receptacles and not worry about its voltage compatibility. If you need 240 V for some application you will normally know what you are doing and won't be asking for how to hook up a 240 V service on this newsgroup.
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"The knick knacks people (many immigrants) bring over such as cake mixers, juicers, entertainment systems (TVs, VCRs, stereo equipment) ,
If you're trying to use a foreign TV or VCR in the US, the voltage issue is the least of your problems...
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Greetings,
I prefer to view videos originally shot in PAL video in PAL format. The NTSC disc would involve both frame-rate conversion and a slight lowering of picture resolution. It isn't a problem -- it's a better product.
Hope this helps, William
PS: Would you throw out all your home videos if you moved abroad?
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Greetings Doug,
Millions of 240V 200W or less houshold appliances are purchased (even by Americans) every year. The AC adapter for the laptop that I am writing this very post on accepts input from 100-240V at 50/60Hz at 140W. Unlike my laptop, my PAL VCR REQUIRES a 240V and I doubt it uses more than 200W. Not every appliance from oversees can run on 60Hz but many can.
Hope this helps, William
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Good for you. I know a guy that does heart surgery too, but I'm not about to try it myself and he does not tell people how to do it either. .
> If the OP is that ignorant

If they work so well, you'd see them all over the pace instead of dedicated circuits for table saws with 3 HP motors, you'd see them on clothing dryers, etc. You have no idea what the OP is using the circuit for so don't recommend a solution that may not be at all possible, cold even be a danger..
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wrote:

The OP has practically no idea of how to get a 240V outlet and probably wants to DIY for a small appliances. I get questions like this from a lot of oriental immigrants who value their TV sets, expensive home entertainment equipment, rice cooker, kitchen appliances etc. that they ship over with their possesssions. The TV and VCR are tossers as they are PAL standard, unless all he wants is to view HK soap operas on tape. Don't laugh. They do exactly that.
Lets put it this way. A guy thinking of using a 240V supply for a welder or a table saw knows enough about tools, machines and technology to have a pretty good idea of what is needed or knows where to look it up. If he doesn't the machines will maim or kill him long before he gets zapped by a electrical outlet.
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PaPaPeng wrote:

Did it occur to you that you could have just asked him? Now having said that, I'm going to agree that you can assemble a 240 circuit as you described, but it'll only be rated for the same 20 amps as the original 120V circuits. But you'll need to abandon the single pole breakers that these were on and install a two pole breaker. This will work, but it's stupid as hell, because you've now got two hot legs running different paths through the attic or whatever. I don't know if this is legal or not, but it is required that both conductors be run through the same conduit or raceway, when the conductors run through these, but I'm not sure whether this applies to romex runs. OTOH, lighting circuits can be split into different romex runs, so I doubt there would be any more safety issues with your method than with these, legal or not.
Now I'll show you a better way: Take the white wire from your 120 volt receptacle and wrap it with black electrical tape, or paint it black. It is now a legal hot conductor, and you can pull it loose from the neutral buss and insert it into the other pole of your two pole breaker. We're assuming that this was a dedicated and isolated circuit to begin with. You now have converted a single 120 circuit into a 240 circuit, and you can leave the other circuit going to your duplex as 120V. You can buy duplex receptacles in which one is configured for 240 and the other 120. Or, even better, you can use any 120 receptacle at all that has only one circuit running to it to form your 240V circuit.
Now if, OTOH, this isn't a light duty application, but is going to be used for a range, water heater, dryer, welder, pool pump, well pump, etc., then all bets are off.
If anyone has some NEC code to add to the above then by all means let's get it clarified.
hvacrmedic
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Greetings PaPaPeng,
Your posting expressed good creative thinking which may well have lead the original poster (if he is ambitious) on the road to a viable solution. Although the poster probably couldn't install a 240V outlet safely or to code based on your posting alone and many details were omitted, it was the best one at the time. You filled in a few blanks where you didn't have enough information but I don't think you should be strung up for that.
Keep at it, William
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On 1 Jul 2005 20:46:47 -0700, " snipped-for-privacy@wdeans.com"

Thanks for the vote.
I could have made things a lot easier this way.
Hey guys. Go to your kitchen duplex outlet with a multimeter set to measure VAC. Measure across the top and bottom small slots on the right hand side. It should read 240 Vac thereabouts. Measure across the top and bottom larger slots on the left hand side. It should read 0 Vac.
Replace that duplex with a 240 V type receptacle that won't allow a 115V plug to be plugged in. The wires to the right hand side of the duplex receptacle should both be black. Use only these two black wires to connect to the 240 V receptacle. The left hand side wires should be white. Snip off the bare ends or tape them up. They are not used. These white wires should not have any bare ends to cause a short circuit. The ground wire goes to ground. Now you have a 240 Vac outlet rated for 15 amps.
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PaPaPeng wrote:

Which may be protected by two independent breakers, meaning one side may stay hot when the other has been tripped which is a really big NO NO.
--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit
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Kitchen splits in Canada have always required tiebarred breakers. I'm not sure about kitchen splits in the US. They existed, but I don't know of the codes then.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It\'s not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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wrote:

Not in most installations in the United States, it won't. You'll see ZERO.
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Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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wrote:

ZERO.
Yes, and when you DO see 240 volts, in most cases there would be a red wire...
I don't know why he thinks all receptacles are split wired
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Greetings Rick,
While I have never seen a non-switched split-wired kitchen receptacle within the US I understand that they are the norm in Canada. In Canada the kitchen receptacles would use a 240V breaker and therefore one would be on Pole A and the other on Pole B.
What PaPaPeng suggests is not too far out of the question under these circumstances. PaPaPeng simply didn't know the circumstances so he made some up. He went a little too far filling in the blanks and he overgeneralized wiring based on his one reference implimentation.
To be very clear I am NOT saying that PaPaPeng suggestion is the way to go -- only that it isn't the product of a raving lunatic's mind and could almost work under special circumstances likely NOT what the OP will encounter in his home.
The OP is probably not in Canada and PaPaPeng does not appear to have all the information but what he suggests is not too far out of the question under these circumstances.
Hope this helps, William
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wrote:

to
the
see
red
receptacle
Canada
They're out there in the US, too-guess it depends on the electricians and inspectors preference. Of course they have to be on opposite poles.

these
Like just disconnecting the neutral and taping it up? Fine, if there are no recepticals downstream...
Making up circumstances is not the best thing to do when offering advice on electrical wiring to someone who doens't have basic skills...

to
have
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Yes, it is. As I noted in another post, it's dangerous, it violates Code, and there's a coin-toss probability that it won't work anyway.

Yeah, that's always a good idea when giving electrical advice...

Somewhat of an understatement. :-)

Perhaps not, but it certainly *is* the product of someone who doesn't know what he's talking about.

So why are you defending it?

Yes, it is "too far out of the question." It absolutely *is* a Code violation. It absolutely *is* dangerous. It absolutely has only a 50% probability of working at all IF the wiring is as he suggests - which, in the US, is vanishingly unlikely.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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