Electrical Questions

Page 2 of 3  

On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 19:01:14 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

Some things make much more sense with diagrams. How about this (fixed font for reading, of course):
#1 SW1 SW2 O+----------------O (hot) | --------------------O| |O----light---\\ | | O----------------+O | (neutral) | | ---------------------------------------------------/
#2
(hot) SW1 SW2 --------------------O+---------------------------O | O+----------light------------O| (neutral) | --------------------O----------------------------O|
This is what I think the OP may be describing:
(hot) SW1 SW2 --------------------O+---------------------------O--------\\ | | O+----------light------------O| receptacle (neutral) | | --------------------O----------------------------O+-------/
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Like I said... that's stupid.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 01:52:31 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:
[snip]

Which doesn't keep people from doing it.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Unfortunately true. I remember in my first house, the medicine cabinet was one of those old chrome-plated jobs with fluorescent lights on the sides, and an outlet at one end. Lights were controlled by the wall switch, but the outlet was hot all the time. Only one cable coming into the medicine cabinet: a 2-wire BX from the switch. They had used the cable armor as the neutral for the lights.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 12:41:38 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

I have one here, the 3way light in my kitchen is wired like that, and there's a receptacle installed in one of the boxes (next to a 3way switch), with both hot and neutral common to both switch and receptacle (which is not affected by the switch).
BTW, this is the house built in the late sixties.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 17:11:56 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

That depends on how the 3-way circuit is wired. The receptacle could work fine.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

I think that is what I was talking about. Each switch has both hot and neutral connected to it. The screw shell may or may not be hot depending on the positions of the switches.

I solved that one, with the possibility the OP meant EACH rather than BOTH (that is, a wire on each (2 wires) rather than a wire on both (the same wire)). One traveler connected to each side of the receptacle. Travelers are never connected together unless the receptacle is shorted.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 09:48:24 -0600, Mark Lloyd

How can one connect something to each traveler without connecting to both?
There's a three-way switch at one end fo the travelers, and the specifiec connection at the other, right?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

That's easy, when there's 2 somethings (hot and neutral wires to the receptacle).

That depends on how it's wired. I know of one of a 3way circuit that has both hot and neutral on each switch (and that has a receptacle on it too). Ignoring it won't make it go away.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Having seen the diagram, I offer an alternative verbal description of the logic. To start, there is only one traveller.
There are three conductors. One of them is permanantly hot. One of them is permanantly nuetral. Neither switch affects either of these. The outlet is connected between them.
The CENTER pole of each switch is connected to the third-wire, the lamp, and then the other switch. the (up) pole of each switch is connected to the hot, and the (down) pole of each switch is connected to the nuetral.
So Switch-1 controls whether one side of the lamp is hot or nuetral, and Switch-2 controls whether the other side of the lamp is hot or nuetral.
If both switches are set to "hot", then the lamp is hot, but off. If both are "nuetral" then the lamp is not hot, and off. If the switches disagree one way, then the lamp is hot, and it's polarity is correct, and if they disagree the other way, then the lamp is hot, but the polarity is reversed.
I don't know if I'd call it "stupid", it's actually kind of clever. But if the light fixture(s) in question have exposed shells, or if the person doing the wiring doesn't know what you've done, it's certainly dangerous. (I mean, you can stick your voltage detector across the two leads to the lamp, show zero volts, and still get zapped when you start pulling wires apart. How much fun is that?)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

You're supposed to work on the wiring without turning off the breaker?
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Tnanks. I'll have to think aobut this some more.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Yes
It varies by panel and manufacturer. Check the labeling inside of the panel or the panel cover. It will tell you exactly how many are permitted. The maximum allowable circuit breakers (Thin or full size) in any panel is 42.

LOL. I've never seen that set up before. Off hand I can't think of any code violations, but by having the travelers connected isn't the 3-way function disabled?

Yes.
You're welcome.
John Grabowski http://www.mrelectrician.tv
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Ok, this had really got my attention. Some replies seem to understand #3, some don't. I don't. Can OP or someone enlighten the 50% that don't? Thanks.
John Grabowski wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

panel
The
42.
code
function
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

No, I think you are misunderstanding him. (or I am reading too much into it) The light is wired normally to the common. A second device is wired to both travelers; as such it always has power, but does not affect the light controlled by the 3way switch.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

or
handle.
out
it)
but
How can you connect something to both travelers and not have the travelers connected to each other? Suppose you connected one traveler to one brass screw on an outlet, then connected the second traveler to the other brass screw on an outlet? The only way to keep them separate would be to break off the middle tab on the outlet, but then the top and bottom of the outlet would alternate being hot.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

good point, you couldn't.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

The receptacle is for a series connected dimmer for the hardwired light.
Connect one traveler to the hot side of the receptacle and the other traveler to the neutral side of the receptacle. Now when the hardwired light is "off" its brightness will be controlled by this inefficient dimmer.
BTW, that was supposed to be funny but maybe they actually used dimmers like that once.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.