The biggest problems, actually, are with 14-gauge wire in backstab connections. And the Code *doesn't* allow that any more, precisely because of problems such as you are seeing. (The installation in your home probably did meet Code at the time it was done.) 12-gauge wire is still permitted to be backstabbed (but screws are much, much better).
I dont' usually jump in, but don't you have those numbers backwards? The backstabbable outlets i've seen won't allow a 12 in the hole.
steve
Good wiring techniques call for series connected devices to be pigtailed to the primary wires. Shame on all you experts for not mentioning this. The reason is obvious: when a replacement or repair is necessary it can be done in mere minutes with greater reliability it is claimed. Through wiring (using both screws on the side of a receptacle, for example), is the mark of an amateur. HTH
Joe
The times i mentioned pigtailing, several people would say what a waste of time... etc. etc. I quit trying. I'll just do it right and let everyone else double screw them.
steve
Thanks for the additional feedback. I'll check into that technique. Time for google! Or my Stanley Wiring book , though I've lent that to my neighbor for now.
Man I'm glad I dont live in a Romex wired house.
The older ones would allow either. I haven't seen any newer ones that would allow #12.
When I saw a neighbor connect a receptacle last year, he used all 8 connections on that receptacle (4 screws and 4 backstab holes).
This is what I was taught and what always intuitively seemed right, never let the device be the load run. A healthy plier twist and wire nut will carry the load run and the device should simply tap that. I think the problem is that Romex is so much thicker than regular wiring with conduit that it quickly takes up all the room in the box, so use of a deeper box would be needed to do pigtails. With regular wire in conduit center stripping a 1 inch area then looping around the screw with no cutting of the load run is easier, common, and very dependable as it has no effect downstream even if a screw comes loose. You cant center strip Romex because of the way the outer jacket must enter/exit the box and be anchored, so it's cut, cut, cut in every box.
Though it doesn't really matter for me, I am curious, and always willing to learn. How did he connect 8? With 4 wires? Also, I take it from this and an earlier post that referenced romex wiring, that romex is what I'm dealing with, and pigtailed is the same as what Rick referred to as "working with plain wire in conduit"?
Chicago and it's suburbs are about the only place where conduit is still required for residential. Romex is a term like Xerox, a brand name that became a generic name for something. Romex wire having its own outer jacket so it can be used without roughing in a house with steel conduit first. Pigtailing is a technique of twisting a smaller wire onto the load run using a wire nut, that small pig tail then goes to the device (outlet) leaving the load run with a more dependable wire nutted connection no longer dependent upon the device connection failing. Similar to a "T" where the load run is the top of the T and the pigtail is the vertical part. Bottom line is that with pigtailing every device in the run does not become a "carrier" for the entire load run.
...
While "pigtailing" seems like a good idea, does anyone know if and when the electrical code requires it? A reference to an actual code section might be useful.
Thanks, Rick. That's what I figured it meant, and sure does make more sense. Oh well; play with what I was dealt...
I would bet money that the OP will find that the wiring is stab-lok'd to the back of the receptacle and that that is why he's having a problem. Something is broken/bent/loose inside the recep. assembly and when the plug is wiggled it is making/breaking the connection to the wire feeding the light switch. I suspect that a recep. in a bathroom is used quite frequently - and by this I mean that plugs are inserted and removed quite a bit. for that reason I would recommend a "spec grade" receptacle, or if it is an older house without a GFCI breaker for the bathroom, a GFCI receptacle (which usually appear similar in construction to "spec grade" anyway.) And I would definitely use the screw terminals and not the stab-loks.
nate
No, more likely something was mechanically weak internally in the other outlet and the simple act of plugging in a tester broke it. That means it's time to replace it.
Yup, replace 'em all. Just do it. You'll sleep better. at a minimum, test every outlet in the house and replace all that have problems, but I'd just do all of them while you're in the groove.
nate
(total hypocrite, since I still have to do about half of the ones in my house.)
Just checked one -- and yeah, you're right, I do. Mea culpa.
I never use those stupid things anyway...
Probably just beating a dead horse here, but just to clarify and try to understand it, if there was something mechanically weak or wrong prior to testing it, why was it not causing a problem the day before when the other was acting up? This new, previously "unused" outlet was upline from the one I was working on, but not causing a problem until after I had worked on the downline one. Anyway, not important, but just trying to see if there's something else to learn from this situation.
Thanks; I'm thinking of maybe doing one room per day. But also, doing a whole house, even at only a couple dollars per outlet/switch, will be over a hundred dollars. I'm guessing close to 50 combined? At that volume, we'll have to see how "high quality" I want to go! Or would simply re-wiring all of them be enough. It's not like we're continually plugging and unplugging things into these outlets. Anyway, thanks again.
Yeah, they were backstabbed. I re-wired the same outlet in the bedroom, and am now debating the replacement of all outlets. I could see the bathroom ones, as they do get more active use. What are "spec grade" ones? I don't have GFCI outlets, though my house was built in '88, and I was told in another thread that it would have to be based on that. So I guess it's on a GFCI upline somewhere? If so, then are you saying to simply use a spec grade, since the GFCI is already elsewhere on the circuit? Thanks.
See if you have a real electrical supply house that will sell you receps and switches in quantity. The one around here is Dominion, but I think they only have locations in Virginia. If you go with the cheapies, even a "contractor pack" of 10 at the Home Despot will only run you $10-15.
nate
I would guess that the plastic that holds the metal bits in place got brittle from age and possibly heat and the simple act of plugging in a little tester or sticking your Fluke's probe in there caused it to crack and no longer hold the metal bits firmly in place. But that is just a guess. I have however removed plenty of receps that have the thin bit below the ground hole busted out so it seems like a reasonable guess.
nate
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