Electrical Permit Question

[James "Cubby" Culbertson]

Hiya Folks, Getting everything in order to build a courtyard wall at my residence. I intend to extend a lighting circuit and hang a couple of fixtures off the wall. The State of NM requires me to get a permit for the electrical portion of the work (as they should I suppose). To get this permit, I have to pass a small exam. They describe it as "the first 4 chapters of the NEC code" and the "NM Electrical code". This is a closed book exam. They are kind enough to sell me the NEC and NM Codes for $90 but offer no study guide etc... for me to use. Should I fail the exam, I can re-take in no less than

30 days. Has anyone got any advice on how to prepare for such a thing (ie. just what are the 4 chapters in the Code Book?). I really don't want to plonk down $90 so I can run 20 ft. of conduit (yeah, I'm being cheap!). I suppose I can take it and then I'll know what sort of material they are covering but I really don't want to wait a month to be able to get this done. Thanks for any advice. Cheers, cc

[Speedy Jim]

See if your local library has the books.

Jim

[RBM]

[James "Cubby" Culbertson]

I'm not sure I agree with you on this. I'd save a considerable amount over hiring someone. The permit is inexpensive, materials won't be much, it's all my own labor.

[Olaf]

I think a law like that is designed to persuade you to do just that...... hire someone.

I wonder if the electrical systems in NM are safer because even homeowners must be able to interpret the NEC to do any permit work.

[zxcvbob]

Is there an electrical outlet nearby? Hang the fixture from hooks (do not permanently attach them to the wall) and plug them into an extension cord. You can redo them later; this is just to say FU to the inspector because you won't need a permit for it. Or maybe you can use kerosene lamps. You can redo it later after they sign off on the structural work and nobody is looking.

I ordinarily would not recommend doing the work without a permit, but is sounds like the permit system there is designed to screw homeowners, and I doubt anybody can pass their test on the second try (if you do pass, they'll say you cheated.) The reason for the 30 days until you can take the test again is so you'll hire out the work to one of their buddies.

Someone else said go to the library to get last years code book. Good idea.

If they have adopted the NEC into law, they need to have a copy available for reference. You won't be able to take it home but you should be able to demand to read it.

Best regards, Bob

[James "Cubby" Culbertson]

Yeah, the corruption in this state is unbearable. No doubt I'll get a few recommendations for hiring out the work from the folks at the testing center and they'll all know of a "great contractor"!

I won't be putting up something cheesy so I think I'll pass on the extension cords :) . Interestingly enough, they require no permit for the building of the wall. The only permit I'll need is the electrical and to be honest, I wasn't aware I couldn't extend a circuit without a permit until now. Once I have the permit, I'll have to grandfather a few other bits I've already done (added a circuit and subpanel).

Ahh the beauracracy of it all. I suppose it's all meant to keep us safe though. Cheers, cc ps. hadn't thought of the library. Do those still exist with the internet in full swing? Just kidding....

[Calvin Henry-Cotnam]

[regarding NM requirement of testing for an electrical permit]

I wonder if the electrical systems in NM are LESS safe because the permit requirements scare enough off from going that route and just wing it with no inspector ever looking at it to make sure it complies with code.

[Richard J Kinch]

No, it is primarily designed to keep the trade employed at above-market prices. Any safety issues are a secondary effect. Look at who lobbies for these types of laws: it isn't the homeowners.

[RBM]

[barbarow]

[David Martel]

CC,

So, the local home owners and area farmers must pass a test before they can do wiring. Look in the catalog of your local vocational/technical school, they will certainly offer a course in this. You might check with the agricultural extension service also, since local farmers certainly do a lot of wiring. I realize that you don't want to wait but to do it right I think you'll need to wait. As others have pointed, out this exam and permit system encourages illicit wiring, not that I'm suggesting that you do this.

Good luck, Dave M

[No]

Keep the government out of it. Just do the work and get on with life. This is government run amok, again. If you do all this garbage its just another fund-raiser just because they don't tax you enough already. HA. Keep you money, do the work, of course ensure you are doing it safely and move on.

Good luck

[sleepdog]

The nfpa web site has books you can order. Residential wiring is a good one, it reads like classroom textbook, but it only references the NEC. You can find that in the library. I have the 1999 version, time to upgrade myself to 2005 versions.

Another good > Hiya Folks,

[James "Cubby" Culbertson]

[John Gilmer]

Do "they" require a permit to just bury some plastic conduit inside the wall and put in some plastic boxes (without wires)? If not, just do that. You can build your wall and run wires as needed.

[Andy]

What you are describing is simple to do. Your insurance will only have a problem with your own work if THAT is the reason for a fire and that unacceptable procedures were used. They won't fail to pay a claim unless your negligence caused the problem.....

So, if you know how to do the work, I think you should get on with it, since it is a simple task... However, if you don't know how to do the work, reading over the NEC and asking questions of the guy at Home Depot can't hurt a bit. Think of it as an opportunity to learn a few things you haven't thought of....

I realize that your focus is on completing your project and you probably don't want to stop and pick up another skill before continuing..... Have patience. Set your project back a month or so and learn about this stuff. It's fairly interesting, and will serve you well for the rest of your life. In the process, you may even discover that you want to hire the work done, even if you understand how to do it yourself. Sometimes that happens with stuff like "fishing for wires inside walls", and "digging trenches

24 inches deep and installing a ground fault interrupter". Sometimes, it just ain't worth the hassle.....

But good luck on your project. It seems to me that the local unions have gotten another law passed to screw the homeowner....

In MY area, any outside work, regardless of the type, MUST be done by a "master electrician". Outside extension cords MUST be type "sj". etc etc......

..... unfortunately, I am not aware of these laws, passed in a town several hundred miles away, and will innocently do the job myself, even though I am only a registered EE and have been doing this stuff for 40 years...... I sure hope I don't go to jail.....

....... on the other hand, some of that good Texas jail food and a sweet cellmate named "Big Pancho" may be just what is needed to put a rebel like myself in line (grin) ....

Andy

[kevin]

Um. Do you really... oh nevermind. And while you are at it, you might as well ask the lady at the hair salon too.

-K

[Chris Lewis]

According to kevin :

Maybe it's unique to Canada, maybe unique to our local HDs, but the floor staff at our HD are extremely knowledgeable. The electrical and plumbing sections each have a list of the professional credentials of 4 or 5 floor staff (ie: a master plumber with 25+ years of experience), and at least one is always available.

As a plumber we hired explained, many older trademen work for HD a few days a week to guarantee a minimum take-home, and/or some of them have just decided that slugging around HWTs or climbing down into well pits is no longer what they're interested in.

[kzinNOSPAM99]

I would never take advice from a home depot clerk especially regarding electrical. You have no idea what their level of experience and working as a hardware clerk somewhat trains you in sounding convincing even if you have no real idea what you are talking about.

Stick with the books or someone you know is knowledgeable.

"But that's what the guy at home depot told me to do" isn't gonna cut much ice if someone gets hurt.

you can get good advice in this group but you must raise your level of knowledge to the point where you can smell the bs if it appears.

ml