So now that I've had grounding installed in my house, I'm looking at my electrical box and I don't see where the ground wire would go.
I won't be doing my own work of course, I'm not knowledgeable enough, but before I start asking electricians to install new romex and grounded outlets I would like to know if its even possible with my current breaker box.
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That's my box, a GE panel, room for 2 more circuits, given this arrangement, how would a grounded circuit be run? Would I have to replace the breaker in order to accomplish this or is it a matter of connecting the ground to the bus where the neutrals run?
Would I be losing the advantages of grounded service by doing that. I guess I was under the impression that the neutral bus and the ground bus are wholly separate.
I guess I'm wondering if I need to change the panel now if I want to have the full advantage of 3 prong outlets and grounded service.
The are connected at the main panel. From there on the neutral is a current carrying line and the ground is just a ground, but at the panel they become one with the earth. :-)
Too tired to fully explain why your 'ground' goeson the neutral, but will try to get you square on your terminology, might help you figure it out.
The 'ground' in a romex is called an 'equipment grounding conductor' it provides a low impedance (resistance) path to the power source to force breakers to open in situations where a 'hot' comes incontact with a 'grounded case'.
The 'ground' from the ground - the rod, water pipe, plate, is called the grounding electrode. It's purpose isn't to protect personel from shocks, like the third prong on a plug, but to stablized voltage, so the neutral remains an effective zero volts, on you panel reguardless of voltage transients.
This should be enough to make you rethink what you said.
The bonding wire, from the grounding electrode and the main panel of the services goes on the neutral bar.
Remember, this was spewed out fast, get into the codes they have definitions that might help better than this, and always follow codes.
Oh I very much appreciate the clarification. I myself won't work on the panel, and wouldn't install circuits or replace wires without experienced supervision. But I prefer to be educated on it so that I know at least something of it.
The next work that will be done will be to change out the actual panel. All I did this time was have someone replace the breakers (4 of which had rust on them, the others were showing signs of heat and all of them operated more like a volume control slider than a circuit breaker) and install a per-code ground system, sufficient for a 200 A service.
There actually was a ground wire in the panel, but it didn't seem to go anywhere that we could find so it was clipped to prevent ground loops
If you don't mind explaining some more. Where does that ground plug lead to on a 3 prong outlet? So the black goes to the breaker, the white to the neutral bus (electrical ground for the circuit correct?) and then the ground wire (3rd prong) goes to the neutral bus as well to provide an alternate path in case of failure.
Lastly, the electrician indicated that my outlets were wired backwards, meaning the black wire was on the terminal where the white wire should be. Since I only have 2 prong outlets I presume that doesn't really matter, but was what he was saying correct?
He mentioned this because he was concerned about the inspector and what he would say when the panel was replaced.
It does matter with lamps/appliances that have exposed metal parts. The thing is supposed to be connected so that if there's a short to that part, it should be the neutral rather than the hot wire that shorts to it. That's why they use polarized receptacles now (neutral hole is bigger).
Depends. On the GE panel I put in, per manufactures instructions, a seperate ground bar was necessary to complete the installation. So the "hot" ungrounded conductor went to the breaker, the 'neutral' grounded conductor went to a neutral bar, and the equipment grounding conductor went to a ground bar. However, some panels like Square-D, allows for grounds and neutrals on the same neutral bar.
BTW, I'm a fan of installing a seperate ground bar. Neater installation, and only a few bucks more.
Back to your question, the path "HASTO" go back to the power source. This low resistance path back to the power source causes breakers to trip. The equipment ground isn't another path of return, just a dedicated path for fault current.
Not there to say if he was correct in what he saw, but if he was you do have a potential problem. Many plugs are 'polorized' to only allow one pronge to be on the "hot side". Here is a good reason for this, visualize a lamp socket for a lamp. It's typically metal, and the outer metal part was sometimes a conductor of electricity. So if the 'hot' conductor was wired suck that the metal socket was energized, rather than the center spot deep inside the socket, I person could hold on a lamp's metal parts and touch a heating radaitor and recieve a shock. So, if you wires are backwards, it is a concern.
Call your inspector. Tell him you're having work done on the panel, and what does he like seeing. You are only helping him do his job better. Many times stuff previously installed was under codes enforced at the time, so they were once ok, and not reinspected
Side note, I was replacing a circuit to a detached garage. That was it, the inspector (called for checking a trench dept) took a peek at the service panel and freaked. He took me infront of the home owner and explained what 'extra work' needed to be done, before he returned. It was work above and beyond the original job scope, and cost had to be factored in. So if something is wrong, he will want you to fix it.
Now everything I wrote is based on experienced, and I offer no truth in facts. I am not your electrician, nor able to see the installation, or an expect on all codes effecting your home. This isn't a how-to.
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