Electrical - Is this legal to code?

[RBM]

If he does that, he can only have 240 volt circuits. He'll have no neutral

[krw]

I would have agreed with you ten-fifteen years ago but they're pretty good, now. A sump pump, likely not. But there is no reason to avoid them for any other application. Grounding does *not* do the same job.

[RBM]

Well, if you installed hundreds of them annually for a living, like I do, you might see if differently.

[DanG]

Tell that to my friend that just lost a freezer full of groceries. GFI had tripped with no apparent symptoms before or after.

[krw]

So you're an electrician who admits to not following code. Interesting.

[krw]

That's extremely rare anymore. As I said, fifteen years ago, sure. I might not put one on a freezer, either but that's not the general case. I'm wiring my basement now and I'll use them everywhere. There's really no reason not to.

[RBM]

No, but I am an electrician voicing my opinion about a particular code

[Duesenberg]

My neighbour had a gfi outlet "trip" on him while he was away for a few weeks. He lost a 20 cu foot freezer full of meat. Several deer, couple moose, and several several several choice cuts of freshwater fish in addition to beef/pork/poultry/lamb.

His home insurance agent actually came out and agree to compensate him $1700 for the lost spoils of hunting and fishing.

I would imagine the deer and moose and bear of Northern Ontario will be paying the true price of this gfi "trip" for the next couple years...

[HerHusband]

I missed that in the original post, but that would make the installation easier having a dedicated ground wire. Just cap off and ignore the extra white neutral wire (you would still have to do some testing with a meter to determine which wire you are using).

Agreed, but it's kind of too late to be completely code compliant at this point and still have two circuits. Electrically, the four wires in the two cables would be no different than running four individual wires in conduit. The rest is a typical subpanel installation.

I would make it all up as I described. If he ever digs up the line and installs conduit and the proper wires, it would be an easy conversion.

As RBM posted, that wouldn't provide two 120V circuits with neutrals and a ground. The method I posted does, and also leaves the option for a 240V circuit if you need that.

Yep, by not planning ahead, the original poster has seriously limited what he can do. Still, he's probably not going to have more than a light and an outlet or two in a shed.

I ran conduit to my shed, with 10 gauge wire to support a 30A subpanel. That's way more than I'm likely to need, but I can always pull that out and feed bigger wire if I need to.

Anthony Watson Mountain Software

[fred.flintstone]

Why would a GFI be placed on a freezer or refrigerator anyhow? It's bad enough when there is a power outage and these appliances go off, but normally the power is restored long before these foods are ruined. A tripped GFI does not notify the owner of the failure, and it may be days before the woner finds out what occurred.

A GFI should never be used on a freezer, refrigerator, sump pump, sewerage pump, furnace, or life support device.

[RBM]

I don't know about the CEC, but the NEC requires GF protection in certain locations regardless what you're plugging in.

[krw]

Because it's code in much of the US. There used to be an exception for freezers when they were the only thing on the branch (single outlet) but that went away recently.

All but the sump pump, shouldn't be plugged into outlets in a wet area, particularly life support devices. I doubt sewage pumps are required to be on GFCIs because they're hard-wired, no?

[RBM]

Neither sewage pumps or sump pumps are required to be GF protected, unless the manufacturer requires it. It is the outlet location where the pump is plugged in, that may require the GFCI device

[krw]

Right, but sump pumps are usually plugged in and are usually in places that require GFCI (wet areas/basements).

[RBM]

As are sewage ejection pumps. It's not the pump, but the location that requires the GF protection. None of these things require it, if they're hard wired. (unless the manufacturer requires it)

[krw]

Ok.... Aren't *all* sewage pumps hard-wired? I've never seen a sump pump that was. They all seem to come with cords/plugs.

[RBM]

Not if you're referring to a residential type sewage ejection pump, they're typically cord and plug. Some of the effluent pumps in outdoor, underground pits are hard wired. Recently I'm even seeing commercial duplex sump controllers that use outlets for the pumps. It's just easier to do repairs and replacements.

[krw]

I'll believe you. I've personally never seen one.

I thought that was the reason for the residential units being plug-n-cord. They always go when the water is risin'.

[Duesenberg]

If he kept his freezers in an unfinished basement, doesn't the code now say to have gfi?

To be honest, he probably never thought about it.

[trader4]

Yes, that's the issue.