Electrical - convert 110v to 220v outlet using 12/2 w/ground

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wrote:

So it's dangerous, and (in many jurisdictions) illegal.
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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Hey Doug, the rest of us have to follow the codes, but Nick knows more about it that you or the NEC or Tom Edison. He'll write an equation to prove you wrong.
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So?
Nick
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(Nick Pine) wrote:

So are you just being argumentative, or are you really that stupid?
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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No. We can do anything we want with the wires in our houses. Of course there are consequences. We might use a GFI for more safety. Remember when telephone answering machines were "dangerous and illegal" :-)
Nick
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wrote:

Of course there are. The potential consequences of unsafe wiring include fire, electric shock, and death. Ignoring those consequences is stupid.

No, Nick, I *don't* remember a time when telephone answering machines were "dangerous and illegal." If you do "remember" that, perhaps you should seek professional psychiatric help.
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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NOT TRUE! Before deruglation it was ILLEGAL to cnnect ANY non telephone owned equiptement to your phone line. The phone company claimed it could create a hazard to phone company workers and damage their system. Mostly they were greedy and wanted the $$ to RENT each phone to you.
This up to perhaps 1975 or so. Somewhat earlier than that I found a phone being tossed in garbage. Connected it for my elderly grandma in her bedroom so she could call for help if needed.
One day the phone company called auditing the ring current, thats how they detected how many phones you had. Grandma panicked but later let me reconnect it after I removed the bell. That way they couldnt tell.
Phone companies did offer a intercconnect device they would install for like 200 bucks:(
By 1980 or so things got deregulated and phones could be PLUGGED in with the common jack in use today.
So indeed at one time ANY customer equiptement was illegal, if the phone company found out they could and did just disconnect your service.
Incidently at one time it was ILLEGAL to split your cable to say 2 sets. Cable charged extra for that.
Things have changed a LOT over the years!:)
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Cite the law that prohibited that. Phone company policy, maybe. But law??? Naaah.
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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Doug Miller wrote:

Phone companies prohibited it, federal deregulation law allowed it along with gifting ownership of interior phone lines to the homeowner. Before that a homeowner wasnt permitted to work on the lines in their home.
I worked for a short time a start up company doing phone installs right after deregulation.
Phne companies rountinely disconnected service if they detected tampering of any type to their lines and phones.
You just arent old enough time sure flies
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Like I said -- phone company policy. That's not the same as being illegal. Still waiting for you, or Nick, or anyone else, to cite a *law* against connecting telephone answering machines in your home.
And they were never "dangerous", either. Nick's just out to lunch.
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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Doug Miller wrote:

It was a FACT that you werent allowed to touch connect mess with or sell anything that would connect to the phone network because EVERYTHING belonged to the PHONE COMPANY and being their property.
Are you allowed to mess with others property say your neighbors car?
Eventually some older folks will show up and confirm my position..
It was BELIEVED customer equiptement if it malfunctioned could say electrocute a phone repairman.
Is it a law or rule about backfeeding generator power during a failure?
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That's probably part of the utility tariff, which may have the force of law, since it's approved by the state PUC. Or maybe you agree to all the terms of the tariff as a condition of receiving service.
The phone company tariff might be a similar situation, with the PUC or the FCC approving. In either case, if you violate the tariff, they can cut off service. This happened to me around 1975 with an answering machine which didn't have a "network protection device," a few resistors in a little box which rented for $4.50/month and was said to make it less likely for you to electrocute neighbors and phone lineman.
I'm looking forward to a "Carterfone decision" that will allow us to backfeed without notification or permission. Large buildings do this already, when elevators go down.
Nick
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snipped-for-privacy@ece.villanova.edu wrote:

Thanks for confirming the changes over the years. Anyone under 30 will probably be clueless and think its impossible. The phone cpompany threated to cut off our phone service because of the phone I put in grandmas bedroom. I pointed out she was ill they said ok remove the extra phone immediately, and we can inspect your premises at any time without notice.
We waited maybe 6 months removed the bell and they never bothered us again.
It wasnt about safety it was pure greed.
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No.
It's part of the electrical code. Here, it's also against the law to violate the electrical code.
It is perfectly legal to power your house off a generator, _provided_ you have the code-approved interconnects.

That was back in the days when the phone company was required by law to fix any problems with the phone in your home, because they (theoretically at least) owned all the wires and devices, and you were merely renting the equipment and service.

You can do that already, if you have the proper code-approved interconnect.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It\'s not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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I mean "backfeed" as in "make the meter go backwards."
Nick
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In most places, you can already do that if you have the proper code-approved interconnect. Clearly you're going to have to establish an account with the local power authority so that they'd notice and know where to send the cheques. Secondly, you'll have to have some sort of co-generation that's cheap enough and high enough capacity to be worthwhile backfeeding. Gasoline/diesel generators don't qualify.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It\'s not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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And it is a FACT that doing so was prohibited by the PHONE COMPANY, not by any law.
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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Google "Carterfone decision."
Nick
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wrote:

To use your words... So?
The prohibition on connecting non-Bell devices to phone lines was a Bell policy, not a law. The "Carterfone decision" prohibited that policy. Answering machines were never illegal. Nor were they ever dangerous.
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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But they were "dangerous and illegal" :-)
Nick
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