Electric Range/Oven wiring questions

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I am about to install an electric range/oven and I need help with the wiring requirements. This is for a late 1950's or early 1960's house. The house has a 100 amp service panel that was installed in 2002.
Up until today, the house had an electric wall oven and a separate built-in 4-burner electric countertop cooking range. Both were broken and I removed both of them today along with the cabinets that went with them.
My plan is to replace these two appliances with a single electric freestanding range/oven, and I want to install that in the morning. The electric range/oven that I am putting in was given to me, and it is a GE Model JBP23GV1AD that is in excellent condition. It came with a 3-prong, 3-wire (not a 4-wire), power cord already attached to it.
Unfortunately, after taking out the original two appliances today, I realized that the existing wiring is probably not going to be re-usable for the new combined electric range/oven. The original electric wall oven and electric countertop range were on two separate circuits. Each circuit is/was on its own separate 30-amp breaker, and the wiring for each appears to be cloth-covered 10/3 wire.
The only link that I could find regarding the manual for the GE Model JBP23GV1AD that I am installing is:
http://www.geappliances.com/search/older-pdfs/49-8588.PDF .
Some of the wiring information is on Page 31 and 31 of that document.
I couldn't find the amperage/current requirements in the manual, so I called GE customer service. They said this range/oven requires a dedicated 40 amp circuit.
So, here are the questions/issues that I would like to figure out:
1) I assume that the two existing 30-amp 10/3-wire dedicated circuits can't be re-used with the new (used) stove that I am now installing. Is that correct?
2) I can fairly easily run a new dedicated circuit for the new range/oven. It's fairly easy because the electric service panel is in the full unfinished basement, and I can run the new circuit where either of the old ones are already located -- across the ceiling and up through the floor directly to the new range/oven. The total run is less than 60 feet (probably closer to 50 feet). What size wire should I run and what size breaker should I use?
3) I assume that I can use a 40-amp breaker and use #8 wire for that, since the range/oven I have now is a 40-amp appliance (according to GE). But, if I later replace this electric range/oven with a new one, I am guessing that it may be a 50-amp range/oven since that's what most of them seem to be after a quick check on the Internet. So, would it be smarter to just run a 50-amp circuit now (which I assume means a 50-amp breaker and #6 wire) -- is that correct?
4) And, finally, do I need to (or should I) do a 4-wire hook-up with a 4-prong plug, or is the current 3-wire/3-prong plug sufficient? In either case (whether I use the existing 3-prong or a new 4-prong plug), is the new dedicated circuit wire type the same? -- meaning either 8/3 (40-amp) or 6/3 (50-amp) with ground?
Thanks.
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On 6/6/2013 9:58 PM, TomR wrote:

Correct

8/3 copper with ground (3 insulated plus bare ground) on a 40 amp double pole breaker

correct, and a good idea

The new cable will probably be type nm (Romex). You do want to install a 50 amp range outlet, and new 4 wire cord set on the range. When you install the cord set, you need to remove the jumper that currently bridges the neutral (white wire) and the frame of the range.

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Thanks for your help. Sounds like a plan. I'm not looking forward to having to work with #6 wire, but it looks like that's what I need to do to do the job the right way.
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RBM wrote:

Thanks RBM and everyone else. Mission accomplished. I did the hookup with a new 50-amp circuit, used #6/3 NM wire with ground, used a new 4 wire cord set, and did the jumper removal when converting from the original 3-wire cord to the new 4-wire cord. And, it all worked!
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On 6/9/2013 7:32 PM, TomR wrote:

Is there a convenience outlet on this range?
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RBM wrote:

No, there is not. I've been following the convenience outlet topic here and remembered to specifically look today. I don't recall seeing any either on any range/ovens in recent years -- and I have bought maybe 4 or 5 in recent years for various properties. Other than the electric range/oven that I installed today, all of the ones I bought were natural gas. They all needed an outlet to plug into because they all have electronic pilot/ignition and a few have clocks. None have their own convenience outlet and I don't recall seeing any knockouts on any of them where one (or two) could be installed -- but I wasn't looking specifically to see if there are any knockouts in any of the range/oven cabinets.
To be honest, I was wondering what's up with this topic and why the responses here seem to vary so much. But then I noticed that Nestork posted something about being in Canada, and I think it may turn out to be a "Canada thing" as you suggested, and not something that is normally found in the U.S.
I'm definitely going to be looking in all of the Home Depots and Lowes etc. that I go to in the next few days or week or so. I really am curious what the story is on them, meaning, "is they is or is they ain't" -- I just don't know.
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On 6/9/2013 8:31 PM, TomR wrote:

Nestork is adamant about them being there, but I'm certainly not seeing them, so I think it just may be a Canada thing.
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Do you have a 50Amp breaker for the panel? Everything else you say seems reasonable, I would go with the 50A circuit and breaker and 4- prong plug/socket for future upgrading.
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wrote:

Do you have a 50Amp breaker for the panel? Everything else you say seems reasonable, I would go with the 50A circuit and breaker and 4- prong plug/socket for future upgrading.
+++++
I don't have the 50-amp breaker yet, but that's what I'll get -- plus the 4-prong plug, cord, and outlet.
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TomR:
You may not be aware of it, but there is no plug and receptacle configuration for a 240 volt 40 amp circuit. There's one for 240 volt 30 amps and one for 240 volt, 50 amps, but there just isn't one for 240 volt 40 amps.
So, the range cord and receptacle you'll be needing to buy will be configured for a 240 volt 50 amp circuit, and at that point it only makes sense to pay a bit more and get the 6 gauge wire to provide 50 amp service to the range even though it's only rated for 40 amps.
The other thing to keep in mind is that lots of new stoves only come with one convenience outlet even though there will be a hole stamped for a second one. In a kitchen, you can never have enough electrical outlets. A second outlet is very easy to add, and when you do, you're going to be wanting the cable to your stove to be rated at 50 amps because that second convenience outlet might draw up to 15 amps. They very easy to add and you can buy the outlets at any appliance parts store. You'll also have to add a second fuse holder in an accessible location if you add a second convenience outlet.
--
nestork


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Thanks. That's good to know. I was actually wondering about that regarding the existing 3-prong power cord that came with the range/oven. That means it is probably a 50-ampt 3-prong power cord. But, since I will be switching to a 4-prong cord, it doesn't really matter what the 3-prong one that I already have is.

Yes, I agree. And, so far, that's the consensus of everyone else here.

I'm not sure what a convenience outlet is, but I assume that it is a built-in 110/120V outlet in the range/oven. I'll have to look at it tomorrow and see what I have.
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On 6/7/2013 12:40 AM, TomR wrote:

Personally, I don't remember the last time I saw an outlet built on a range, let alone two. Modern electric codes require plenty of of outlets above counters in kitchens
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From a non-electrical perspective, I would only add that I think switching from seperate wall ovens and cooktop to a combined stove lessens resale value. Depending on what's being done with the house overall, it may not matter. But for a typical house I think it's a mistake to switch to a stove. What is very attractive today is a double wall oven, seperate cooktop. But then they are also a lot more expensive and what he's getting is free.
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And if you have the space, outlets on the fronts of the base cabinets are very convenient for stick blenders and hand mixers.
Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).
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'TomR[_5_ Wrote: > ;3074741']

Exactly. It'll be a 120 VAC receptacle typically mounted on the vertical panel between the stove's cooktop and console.
Appliance manufacturers will offer ranges in a variety of models; from your basic range with coil surface elements to ones with all the bells and whistles; a convection oven, ceramic cooktop, etc. The more expensive stoves will have two convenience outlets, but most will only have one. However, since it's more expensive to make and warehouse TWO different panels instead of one, appliance manufacturers will stamp every panel with two holes for two convenience outlets. And, in their less expensive models they'll only install one convenience outlet and cover the other hole with a plastic cover. So, if you see such a plastic cover on a stove, you can remove it so that you can install another convenience outlet yourself.
But, since a range will have 40 or 50 amp breakers going to it, any convenience outlet you install between the two power sources and neutral in a stove will be 120 volt 50 AMP circuits, and that kind of circuit is dangerous because it'll keep pumping out power even if there's a short circuit. So, every convenience outlet on a range will have it's own fuse to limit the current to the convenience outlet to 15 amps instead of 50 amps. Since the manufacturer also makes those same ranges in a different model with two convenience outlets, the threaded holes for installing a second fuse holder will also be in an accessible spot on the stove, so you don't actually have to cut or drill anything. All the holes to install another outlet will be there, it's just that they'll be empty or fitted with a plastic cover.
--
nestork


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re: "However, since it's more expensive to make and warehouse TWO different panels instead of one, appliance manufacturers will stamp every panel with two holes for two convenience outlets."
Be careful when making broad statements.
My current (gas) range has zero convenience receptacles and zero stamped holes where receptacles might go. Therefore, either they never include convenience receptacles or they make multiple panels.
Now, before you jump on the fact that this is a gas range, my previous gas range had one convenience receptacle and no extra stamped area for another.
My only point is that not every manufacturer follows your description of how the panels are made.
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DerbyDad03;3075020 Wrote: >

Yeah, but you're taking what I said out of context.
I was talking about companies that make multiple models of ranges that all use the same cabinet style. If some of those models feature two convenience outlets; some only one convenience outlet and some no convenience outlets, then it's dumb to warehouse and keep inventory of three different kinds of panels. It would be less expensive to stamp all the panels the same way and provide plastic covers to fit in the holes that aren't needed.
You're talking about different ranges probably made by different manufacturers at different times. It's most likely that at the time your stoves were made, the manufacturer only provided one or no convenience outlet on all of the gas ranges they made.
I'm sure that if either manufacturer made a gas range with two convenience outlets that used the same cabinet style as yours, then you would have seen one or two plastic covers on your ranges, too. Three different panels; one for each kind of range would be dumb engineering and/or dumb company management.
--
nestork


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On 6/7/2013 1:35 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I just tossed one electric range and installed a new one in my house, and neither had convenience outlets or any location where one could go. And as an electrician who installs ranges fairly often, I don't remember the last time I even saw an outlet mounted on a range.
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I do miss the receptacle that was on my old gas range. It sure was "convenient". ;-)
I actually looked for a place to cut a hole and put one on the new range but never got around to it.
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On 6/7/2013 3:59 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I just haven't seen one in years. I looked online and can't find any range that shows one, or lists one in the specs.
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