While I agree with that statement, I'd contend nonetheless that doing good (e.g. feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, sheltering the homeless), even for the "wrong reason", is still a Good Thing. Certainly better IMHO to do good for the wrong reasons, than to do evil for any reason.
Oh, come on, that's easy. Volunteer at a soup kitchen. Donate food and clothing to a shelter for battered women. Teach someone to read. Raise your children to be respectful and kind. Use your turn signal. Say "Please" and "Thank you." Smile. Hold the door open for an old man with a cane.
I could go on, but hopefully you get the idea.
Experience.
If you're hungry, I can give you a sandwich. If you need to rest, you can use my couch. If you need a job, I can make some calls. I can donate blood, pay my taxes (some of which help make this a better world), kill a rat, smile at a child, enjoy a kitten, write to my congressman, and, in a thousand small ways, do something every day.
I never said there was "nothing." The hereafter simply doesn't influence me.
By the simple standard rules of logic, I can say that we MIGHT be closer to world peace, a cure for cancer, or eliminating male pattern baldness had not some really great intellects applied themselves to endeavors other than ruminating on how many angles could dance on the head of a pin.
The New Testament says that the streets of heaven are paved with gold. Whether they're paved with gold or whether they're paved with mud, they are what they are and none of our piety or wit can cancel half a line. We are of THIS world, not the world to come.
But, and this is a big "but," to the degree that any faith inspires and comforts, any activity that promotes that faith and belief is, intrinsically, good. Any religion that promotes charity, good works, justice, respect, protection of the weak and chastisement for the wicked is a good and holy road to God - even if it digresses from time to time to contemplate angles and pins.
There can be more than one reason. But, I've done a lot of things in order to improve my eternal afterlife.
Would you have done them differently if you were not attempting to improve your afterlife?
That was intended as a bit of a trick question. Couldn't resist :o)
Yes, totally so. I woulda never got baptized, if it weren't for the promise of a better afterlife. Nor would I have done any temple ordinances.
Doug, you have a fine young man for a son, anyone who says different is a jerk. I wish there were many more young folks like you son out there. I understand your pride and your wish to share it. You have every right to brag, perhaps you had a little bit to do with it. *snicker*
TDD
I was asking for acute angle. I had to lose some wait, cause I was considered obtuse.
A man died, having all his wealth converted to gold. And burried with him. As he gets to the pearly gates, dragging his incredibly heavy suitcase with him, and looking around, a bit paranoid.
St. Peter greeted him at the pearly gates. Assured him his gold was safe, there was no theft in Heaven. The guy came in, and still dragging his suitcase behind.
As he got out of hearing range, St. Peter turned to the other angel, and asked "what's with that guy and his suitcase full of paving stones?"
Stormin Mormon is always posting his LDS sig line here, so I'll post one that is riveting reading:
Enjoy.
Steve
Oh, I thought you meant something that actually made a difference for somebody other than you.
Sorry if I was confusing. Let me restate.
I come from a tradition that teaches good works are good for their own sake, not as an entrance fee to the hereafter and that was the message I was trying to convey. My tradition teaches that dwelling on the hereafter takes time and effort away from these good works and is, therefore, discouraged.
On the other hand, if someone's faith holds that one earns entrance in the world to come by doing good deeds, that's okay with me - the good gets done and I'm not too anal about the motivation.
On the other, other, hand, there is at least one religion that provides entrance to paradise is achieved principally by expanding the reach of the religion. If this reach is achieved by forcibly imposing the doctrine or killing apostates, infidels, and non-believers, that earns the actor a ticket in first class. And maybe even virgins.
Point is, if one's motivation is driven solely by a desire to enter a better place, the worldly results of that desire can be quite wicked.
Chattel bull?
On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 19:19:49 -0500, "HeyBub" snipped-for-privacy@NOSPAMgmail.com wrote: [nothing that directly answered any of my questions and a great deal that goes off on other tangents]
My kids always loved Chattel's Barbie Dolls.
"HeyBub" wrote in news:QPednURixsJtsfjXnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.com:
I am more of an agnostic, but still believe in the performance of good works (or whatever name you'd give it) as an end in itself. Even helping the ltlle old lady across the street she wants to cross is a good deed, although there are and should be "bigger" things to strive for. The abuse of virgins is just that - abuse. Even the thought should be abhorrent, unless the virgin really wants to shed the appellation.
If you go back and read the text you deleted. You mentioned discussing angles and pins.
There is an old religious debate about "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin". However, you had a dyslexic moment, and spelled the word angELs backwards, and it came out angLEs.
An angLE is the shape described by two lines intersecting on a plane. I truly was being obtuse. Spelling lampoon, that was my angle. I'm certainly not an angel on usenet.
Oh. Sorry. My grammer chequer didn't catch it.
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