Dying for a Chevy Volt, but....

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On Sun, 24 Feb 2013 19:00:26 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"

Enough smarts to not get overextended.

No, not rocking char bound boomers. I have no great wants to be a homebody when I retire (did it once, didn't like it).
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wrote: >>> It doesn't take much planning to avoid such situations.

That is your mistaken ass.umption, troll.
The bike's range was about 150 miles and I had ~30 left, plenty to look for gas in town but not enough to risk finding any on the highway late on Sunday night. I've always recorded every gas purchase and tracked the MPG and remaining range.
I'm just warning not to assume the tourist areas you visit will have the same 24-hour service as the more densely populated place you live. jsw
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On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 08:26:26 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"

Wrong, and wrong. You *admitted* to getting overextended.

Yep. Overextended.

Yep. Overextended. It's good that you admitted it, though.
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On Sun, 24 Feb 2013 19:00:26 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"

I am that market and when I run the numbers, the electric loses every time. For that "5 gallons a month" you can't buy much of an electric car.
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On 02-25-2013 01:26, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

You're missing the point. You are paying for the ability to brag about how much money you're saving and how green you are.
I beat the system though. I put my 35-year-old bicycle back in service and I can brag about both with no costs other than the replacement of parts that resented coming out of retirement.
--
Wes Groleau

If you put garbage in a computer nothing comes out but garbage.
  Click to see the full signature.
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On Feb 24, 11:35 pm, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

I think he is likely a majority. He fies somewhere to his vacation.
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On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 00:05:15 -0800 (PST), harry

That must be a European thing, simply by the number of out of state tags I see, I can guarantee a lot of Americans drive to their vacation spot. Even the average weekend trip will exceed the one way range of an electric. It is not unusual that I drive 150 miles one way to play golf and go fishing. I can drive 600 miles and still be in the same state When our daughter was going to college in Pensacola that was a fairly regular trip.Electrics and the interstate highway system do not really mix. What is the range at 80 MPH?
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On Feb 25, 4:06 pm, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

@ 80mph probably around 15 miles. Aerodynamic drag varies as the square of speed. ie it take four times the power to go twice as fast.
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On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 09:54:37 -0800 (PST), harry

That is part of the problem. Interstates are the backbone of our road system. Even the "two lane blacktop" around here is 55-60 MPH and if you are not doing close to 70, little old ladies pass you waving the finger. If I have to stay on a <35mph road, I get about 1.3 miles before I have to turn around and I still have not passed a store. That is why a street legal golf cart is useless to me. I have a cart, no tags, that I use to drive around the neighborhood looking for the dog and as a tractor to drag tree trimmings to the curb.
When I ran the numbers for a pure electric conversion to my old Honda I couldn't make the cost benefit work. Just the batteries alone would be over $1000, last about 4 years and at $4 a gallon, my short trips don't use that much gas. On the longer trips, I still needed another car. I can come up with scenarios where it would be great (a 20 mile commute every day) but for a retired guy who just goes to the store a few times a week (maybe 30 miles a week total) it is not a real option, particularly when you take longer trips that would require another car. The price of a Volt puts it totally out of the running. Car and Driver ran the numbers and said the Cruze was a better deal. I agree the government bribe may shade that a little but the real cost is just being foisted off on the people who don't buy a Volt. If everyone bought one, the rebate simply moves from your car payment to your tax bill.
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On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 13:24:06 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Better deal? Does that mean everybody should buy the one car that Car and Driver says is a "better deal?" +20,000 Volts were sold last year. According to Forbes, the Volt "is outselling about half of all cars marketed in the U.S." http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgorzelany/2012/09/24/august-chevrolet-volt-sales-redefine-failure/ So your "totally out of the running" is a personal opinion.

The all-electric Nissan Leaf gets more preference with government incentives than the Volt. And you probably meant to say "federal and state government bribes." Many states are kicking in. http://www.pluginamerica.org/incentives I noticed a guy in the Volt forum said he got a $6k tax credit from Colorado to add to the $7.5k from the fed.
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On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 16:04:03 -0600, Vic Smith
Volt, but....:

That doesn't mean that it makes economic sense to buy a Volt. It only means that a lot of people buy one. IMO the mass mentality of the Amerikan public is not a sterling recommendation for anything; and their conspicuous consumption lifestyle proves it to me.
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wrote:

You're preaching to the choir. But economic sense and automobiles rarely meet.
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On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 16:33:00 -0600, Vic Smith
Volt, but....:

That is most certainly very true.
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On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 16:04:03 -0600, Vic Smith

So the poor are subsidizing the rich. That sounds right, at least the way it works here. They also subsidize the people who can afford $50,000 solar PV arrays. I am surprised the big business republicans are not really pushing this. but maybe they are.
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On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 20:45:43 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Well, remember that the lower 47% income folks don't pay fed income taxes. Don't know how it works with state income taxes. The big subsidies come from the 47% being paid low wages and being charged high prices. I mean, the rich get their money from somewhere. I just call it trickle up. It's always been that way. Like how white cars and blacks handle the sun.
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On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 00:34:29 -0600, Vic Smith

The problem with that thinking is that these subsidies are actually coming from the income tax code. The 47% are not going to be able to exploit it unless they have the money to start with. You get it back next year. In Florida we don't have income tax so the Florida solar subsidy comes from everyone but you still have to front up the money and get it back later. Joke's on them. There are tens of thousands of people, still waiting for the money. The program is broke,
It makes you wonder how many people lost their house because they borrowed that money with an equity loan, expecting to get it back in a month or so.
Personally I think taxes are supposed to raise revenue, not to incentivise public behavior so I am against all subsidies that are coming from the tax code. The current term for that is "loop hole", unless you are getting it.
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On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 02:10:19 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

It's not "thinking" at all, just fact. Of course the 47% can't take advantage. By the time prices come down enough for them to afford Volts and solar arrays on their homes - if ever - the subsidies won't be necessary, and won't exist. I'm talking about the low-income part of the 47%, not these folks. http://money.cnn.com/2012/09/18/pf/taxes/romney-income-taxes-millionaires/index.html The average Volt buyer has about $170k annual household income. So I think we agree.

Tax structures have been designed to influence public behavior for ages. 401k contribution exemption to encourage people to feed Wall Street, low cap gains taxes, etc., etc. Subsidies to encourage this or that behavior. It nearly always works too when they hand the money out. I recall you went for that cash-for-clunker deal, right? It doesn't even have to make financial sense, just help it along. Like folks buying stuff they have no real use for, because "it's a steal." Happens all the time.
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money.cnn.com/2012/09/18/pf/taxes/romney-income-taxes-milliona...

Not all the subsidies come from income taxes. For example, here in NJ, the state subsidizes solar electric with a tax levied on all electric bills. They also further burden utilities by mandating that an ever increasing amount of their electric supply come from renewable. That adds a huge cost to the utility that gets spread over everyone's electric bill, rich or poor.
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On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 04:59:15 -0600, Vic Smith

I agree. I could even say that about the mortgage tax deduction but again, it dis proportionately benefits the rich. Renters get nothing.

Yup, We bought a Lincoln and traded a 1986 F150 I got almost $5000 from that by the time we got the state excise tax deduction. ... and they still gave me $400 for the scrap value of the truck.
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On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 20:45:43 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

No, it's the big business Democrats who are really pushing this. Wake up.
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