Dumpster ripoff?

[wizzzer]

The roofing contractor hired a service to bring a dumpster to put the old roof in (mostly the tiles). The dumpster people initially charged about $350. The roofing company was supposed to pay it, but when the guy asked for a check, we mistakenly payed it to him. The roofing company was supposed to pay him, not us. Then the roofing company reimbursed us the money for the dumpster. Then later on, when the dumpster company guy came to pick up the dumpster, he said it was 4 tons overweight (4 tons beyond the limit) and wanted us to pay $145 extra. I told him that didn't sound right to me and anyway the roofing company is responsible for paying. They left the dumpster that day, but today they came again and took the dumpster away. I don't think they'll be bothering us anymore. They never gave us a receipt for the money or told us in advance about extra charges for extra weight.

Do you think they were trying to rip us off? I don't see how our old roofing materials could be 8,000 pounds overweight. That sounds way too high. It's just a 3 bedroom house. It seems to me that the total weight of the materials should be less than 4 tons. It's also not clear why they should charge $145 more even if it really was 8,000 pounds overweight. We called the roofer and they said it was bullshit too. It seems like a scam. Why should we pay $500 just for them to bring a dumpster and take it away? The $350 charge even seemed rather steep.

[spudnuty]

So how did this guy know it was 4 tons overweight? Did he have a weigh station with him? Richard

[louie]

Excellent question. I can see it being overweight (shingles are quite heavy) maybe, but there's no way they could have known without driving it to a scale somewhere first.

[John Hines]

Landfills charge by weight, weigh the truck coming in, and again going out.

When I got dumpster service for my remodel, what I was throwing out was part of the price, something like brick or masonry was more expensive than general construction debris.

If they quoted based on expecting asphalt shingles, and got clay tiles instead, that would be much heavier, and as a result more expensive.

[SQLit]

Not exactly true. When the load is brought up on to the truck, excess weight is instantly noticed.

I had the same issue when I rented a container to move. I had space in the back and all across the top. When they picked it up the guy was bitching that it was to heavy. I asked him, "Now that it is half on and half off your truck just what can I do about it?"

As for the number quoted. The guy could have been close. He picks these containers up all day and drives to the dump where they are weighted.

[Stubby]

The "tipping fee" is based on weight. How do you know the dumpster was empty when he started on your roof?

[louie]

I had considered that, but the OP mentioned that they left the dumpster there that day and didn't pick it up until the day after they had been there demanding more money. So my thoughts were: #1 If they didn't pick it up, they couldn't know how much it weighed #2 I've never heard of a driver demanding payment right then and there for an unverified weight. I've had to rent these before, and the companies have always billed after the dumpster was picked up. So they could have been close, but... close enough to actually bill the customer right there? I doubt it.

[wizzzer]

He said his truck had a scale in it.

[spudnuty]

I Googled that and it is possible but rare. It's also unusual for the driver to demand payment on the spot. I live in Chicago and it reminds me of the tow truck operators. I was comming out of an office and the guy was getting ready to tow my car. He said "Well it would sure be a shame to tow your car. I don't actually have it hooked up yet....." I tried to hand him a $20. " No, no not so obvious, put it down there by the bumper". I did. Reaching down to unhook my car and nab the bill, "Well it looks like this car is legal after all, say any people in there belong to these other cars?" Da city dat works. Richard

[yourname]

They weigh the trucks at the landfill/incinerator/transfer station.

i think the weights are deliberately under for the size, but shingles are heavy compared to standard construction debris

[George E. Cawthon]

Don't know where you live but here the charge is typically by the size and the time you keep the dumpster. And $350, is a lot. They 4-5 foot high by 20 foot by 8 foot dumpster would typically cost about $125 for a month.

I think it was a ripoff or collusion between the roofer and the dumpster people. Shingle are heavy but if the house is about 2000 square feet, you couldn't possibly be 4 tons extra, I doubt you could be 4 tons total.

[Lar]

In article , [e-mail] says... :) I think it was a ripoff or collusion between the :) roofer and the dumpster people. Shingle are heavy :) but if the house is about 2000 square feet, you :) couldn't possibly be 4 tons extra, I doubt you :) could be 4 tons total. :) :) Standard tile run around 800 lb per square, so 20 squares of roofing of the tile alone would be 8 tons. A search of dumpster rental shows a 20 yard roll off (22x4.5x8) dumpster rents for $445 for 3 tons, 98/ton over. Roofer may of contacted a company with a better price than listed above and told the guy 20 sqaures of roofing material, an experienced dumpster hauler probably knows the weight difference of mid range composition shingles that weighs around 3 tons for that amount and what tiles will weigh. When he got there realized it would cost so much extra in his guesstimation... possibly left the dumpster to complain to the roofer who reminded him of the quote he was given, by incompetent sales staff and had to come by the next day and eat the difference..who knows.

[RBM]

[RicodJour]

That depends _entirely_ on where the project is. If I had a guy ask for $350 for a 20 yard dumpster I would write out the check so fast he wouldn't have time to blink, much less reconsider the price. Around here it would easily be 2-3 times that amount.

The OP said the roofing was tile, which usually is about 1000 pounds per square. 20 square, 20,000 pounds. I have the suspicion that the roofer told the carting company that it was a roof tearoff and neglected to mention it was a tile roof. The carting company may have assumed it was a more typical shingle roof.

If the OP hadn't erroneously paid for the dumpster removal in the first place, he probably wouldn't have known what the dumpster cost and wouldn't feel that the price is too high. The OP put himself in the middle of a transaction where he had no business. In any event, the roofer is responsible for the debris removal, so the OP has no reason to feel he is getting ripped off unless the roofer is asking for more money.

R

[George E. Cawthon]

Some times you read what you want instead of what is actually there. Yep I missed the tile, or dismissed it, and was thinking composition. I never heard of anyone tearing off tile, so that is why I dismissed it. Lots of rebuilds but they remove and stack the tile and reuse it. Unless of course someone just wants a change.

Right, we don't know what happened. Anyone I have talked to has said they would price it with and without a tear off, but none of the cost were ever itemized. The OP erred, as he admits, in paying for the dumpster. Unless specific to the contract that was his concern. If the roofer bid the project and wrote the contract incorrectly he would just have to eat any error he made. But did the OP have a contract and a final cost in written form?

[George E. Cawthon]

Yep I knew I was sticking my foot in my mouth for talking about costs. But I did say here. Based on what I read in this newsgroup, our costs for many thing are way below a lot of other places, but if the costs weren't low, the people would move away because wages here are not high either except for the top layer.

I agree with all the rest you said, and I was thinking asphalt not tile. Don't see much tile because of the expense, but tile is suppose to (does) last a long time.

[RicodJour]

It's also a regional thing. In this area the higher end homes have slate. Either tile or slate, you'd better make sure that the rafters can take the big increase in weight.

R

[Jim]

If corp or company specific, those trucks or the dumpster itself usually have a phone number on them. Or at least the trademark name. Allegations of weight overage should be referred to them and how this was surmised specifically to your case. In fact, all the pricing specifics could be gotten from them. Since its not your responsibility, I wouldn't worry about it.

I would concern myself in the future about paying a contractors' sub for him/her by mistake.

Big dumpster I hired only had a requirement that the debris could not exceed the top of the dumpster, and hazmat could not be deposited. I burned the wood scraps, all else was put in the dumpster. That burning saved me one hauling fee.

[chickenwing]

you didn't burn any treated lumber did you?

[Calvin Henry-Cotnam]

[snip]

This sounds fishy to me for three reasons:

- 4 tons OVER the limit sounds rather high for a roofing job

- how can the driver determine this without actually weighing the load?

And the one that really has me thinking this guy is scamming some quick cash:

- around here, tipping fees are in the $80 per ton range, so four extra tons would have me expecting another $320

Sometimes, asking for a low amount can highlight a greedy bastard! ;-)