Doorbell diode problem

I have a doorbell button at the front door and chimes upstairs and downstairs. The old chime upstair quit so I bought a new chime, which required a diode on the button. I did this, but now the downstairs chime dosn't work. ( It does not require a diode) The new chime works fine.. Is there anything I can wire in to the lower unit to counteract the diode?
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see previous older discussion: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/browse_frm/thread/8da43a3d989b550b/dd93c38d8925af66?lnk=st&q=Doorbell+diode+problem&rnum=2#dd93c38d8925af66
also note there are various ac to ac transformer voltages, buzzers and old ding dongs usually need a lower voltage than a chime. don't get lost in the utility area, there may also be a 24vac furnace transformer.
jack wrote:

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jack wrote:

Hi, Tried reversing diode? From ---->|------- to ------|<--------.
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jack wrote:

I would try putting the diode in the line at the upstairs chimes instead of at the button.
A diode would essentially cut the voltage in half. The old chimes probably need full voltage.
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More importantly, a diode only conducts in one direction. If you have an AC system and a DC doorbell, the diode, only conducting in one direction, would cause pulsing DC to appear at the doorbell.
Put the diode in line with the new doorbell so that the normal AC will go to the downstairs doorbell. If it doesn't work, switch the diode.
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Rich256 wrote:

I spoke too soon. The diode is hooked across the button terminals to provide power to the chimes.
I don't think you can have different types or perhaps even two units. The new (with the diode) may allow additional speakes.
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Or it may be there to allow different rings for front and back door buttons.
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AZ Nomad wrote:

It is not a front and back door problem. It is two different types of ringers being driven off the same button.
The way I think his system works is:
The diode for the new chimes provides power all the time. When that diode is shorted out it signals the new one to cycle through it's tones.
If the old bell was the "ding-dong" type. Closing the button picked up a plunger giving one tone. When released it gives the second. With a diode across the button the plunger might be picked up all the time.
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Rich256 wrote:

Forgot to add that with the diode the new chimes continues to get power after the button is released, allowing it to cycle through all the chimes or whatever.
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Do you mean from one button terminal to the other button terminal?
Or for some reason, from one button terminal to the wire that used to be on the terminal?
Or something else?
It sounds like you mean the first, but it seeems like that would use a lot of electricity for nothing.

Why would they do that? Doesn't it waste a lot of electricty
When it would be so easy to keep the swtich open and use closing the switch as a signal to cycle through its tones.

Yes, Or at least not have enough oomph to spring back and ring the chime.
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mm wrote:

Not really. Most likely less than running a clock.
I have one, perhaps 20 years old or more, that has power from the transformer hooked directly to the chimes. The button then is hooked directly to the chimes. The chime unit then supplies the power to illuminate a lamp in the button.
When the button is pushed it starts a motor in the chimes that energizes a series of three plungers for three different tones.
Along the way it makes a couple contacts so extra units can be run from it.

Somehow the button would have to be held for 10 seconds or more!!
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That's one more clock.

They've had doorbells that chime 8 tones or more for more than 50 years. Are you saying they used this system all this time? I would have thought they used a latching relay in the past, and some scr or timer these days.
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mm wrote:

I don't think so - perhaps less - the clock is running. The polarity of the rectified voltage derived from the diode most likely is used to bias off all circuitry. The only load will be the heat generated in the transformer and that is there for all doorbells. Only when the full ac is present does the chimes start operation.

Yes. Cheaper. 50 years ago they didn't have the electronics to cycle through the program either (except of course very large ones using primitive transistors or tubes). Ones like mine couldn't be more simple. A clock motor. When the button closes a path is provided to start the motor. Once started it moves a rotary switch that keeps power on it until the cycle is complete. Along the way the switch has contact that energize selected plungers.
Just took a look around the web. Confirmed what I thought and am pretty certain that the original post problem is what I describe. The diode goes across the contacts of the switch to provide a bias voltage. The plunger on the other type will most likely be picked up all the time.
http://www.musicaldoorbell.com/installation.htm
If his chimes use a speaker his solution might be to replace the old bell with a speaker (using the old wires for the speaker).
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Tell me how to do this, what ohm speaker?
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Big deal; about a buck a year.
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Is this one chime with two buttons? I have that setup and it required the diode only on the front door. Check to see that you are wired correctly at the chime. Will it work with the front disconnected?
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If all else fails he can add a relay with a 24VAC coil to the circuit. The button would operate the old chime directly and also feed the coil of the relay. The contacts of the relay become the the "button" to the new chime and whatever need to be done with the diode (across the contacts apparently) is done at that point. One country--two systems! It'll be the Hong Kong of doorbells!
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