The other point worth making is that the power and cost figures for standby power are routinely exaggerated. Those with political interest in having everyone else unplug everything are either not competent in the subject, or are happy to be lses than honest to try to motivate others to unplug.
And of course, biggest of all... youve only got one life, try to spend the time doing something useful. Speaking of which.... later.
NT
Pleae do not confuse Wikipedia for facts. As to that 75% number, it is highly suspect.
Again, a simple cost/benefit analysis would show the best path to follow. However, simple math is beyond many people who blindly follow whatever the current fad is (be it global warming, electric cars, or whatever) in an attempt to appear 'on top of things', and 'all wise'.
In the end, sure you can save a few penny's of electricity, and spend dollars doing so. And perhaps you feel good doing it that way. Fine, it's your house, as long as no one else gets hurt, go for it. But, if you are really interested in saving money (or energy) then I'd recommend thinking about what you are doing, looking at real numbers, analyzing the various factors (including items such as startup current) and seeing what is the real best solution.
Just because someone replies does not mean they are getting "upset". They are just taking part in a discussion. This is what USENET is.
Exactly. What interested people here I think was the the fallacy and futility of worrying about a minuscule amount of wasted energy; equivalent perhaps to the home heat lost during time taken to have the front door open on a cold day to bring in a few bags of groceries!
It's heartening though that in this day and age of wasteful and prodigal monster homes, jacuzzi and swimming pool styles of living, V8 Hummers etc. (A situation possibly being currently amended by 'tightening our belts'?) is that there is awareness and interest in WHAT IS WORTH DOING to conserve.
What seems to escape many is that by spending many dollars to use manufactured items one only saves a few cents worth of energy. All manufactured items require resources and energy to manufacture. For example how much elctrcity is required say, to refine iron ore, make galvanized sheet steel and stamp out an electrical outlet box, along with the energy required to run the factory in which it is made, package it, transport it to a local retail outlet, stock the shelves, buy or have screws to mount, bring it home, etc. etc. ??????
A neighbour (driven by a wife with virtually zero technical appreciation) has gone all CFLs. Even for those locations where lights are only used occasionally. Each CFL costs around $3 compared to the
25 cent el-cheapos I use and requires several manufacturing operations involving electronic components and a very small amount of mercury. But their electricity consumption has changed little.Why? Because they like most here they use electrcity for heating. So any waste heat from 'inefficient' old fashioned incandescent light bulbs does not contribute to warming the home; likewise an 'inefficient' fridge etc. lost heat from an electric hot water tank etc.
One item that does waste heat energy is a clothes dryer; it just chucks warm damp air outside for some 20 to 30 minutes each time it is run. Hey must cost that out! We run ours as little as possible and whenver weather allows dry heavy items, blankets, towels etc. on our two cothes lines. See item on clothe line supports.
Cheers.
My best friend has degrees in electronics, electrial power and once was a design engineer for at the time a major power transformer manufacturer.
I asdked him about standby losses, he rreports it depends on ntheb transformer. they can be built to be ultra low, which cost more, or lossy and cheap to build.
government should require energy efficency numbers on everything with minimum standards
If that is how my comment was taken, I apologize. It was NOT directed at deaf people.
In that case, again I apologize. I hold no contempt for those doing what they like.
There is an old phrase for that. It predates the concept of "green" and energy conservation by some centuries:
Penny wise and pound foolish.
'Nuff said.
I respectfully disagree.
It's more than enough that the government has mandated energy efficiency labels on MAJOR energy consuming items such as HVAC components, water heaters, laundry equipment, refrigerators and freezers.
Mandating testing and labeling for energy efficiency on "everything" from toasters (virtually 100% efficient, BTW) to doorbell transformers would be too intrusive, costly and accomplish little if anything.
Government rarely "gets it right" with the big and important things. I shudder to think of it getting into such trivial things.
Apology accepted; thanks.
Neat idea. I once used a metal crank that went through the middle of the door and to a beautiful brass bell on the inside of the door. The whole mechanism was unique and functional, although too ornate and too loud for my taste. The Adams Family had a cool doorbell.
Only about half the time. During the winter, I dump the output of our clothes dryer into the house. It adds humidity, heat, and overall comfort.
The CO monitor barely moves.
The worry that you might reproduce?
But didnt manage to explain to you the most important difference, if he is even aware of it.
Switch mode wall warts, with no transformer at all, both cost peanuts to build and have almost no standby losses.
No thanks. I'll decide for myself what makes sense instead.
On Sun 23 Nov 2008 10:57:58a, Phisherman told us...
Those were very popular and common in Victorian times. I like them, and they?re still available through that specialize in restoration items for old homes.
We have a wireless doorbell that uses batteries in the doorbell housing and buttons for both front and side doors. The batteries actually last quite a long time. We?re on our third year on the present of batteries.
We also have a very heavy solid brass door knocker on the front door that would wake the dead. People seem to use the doorbell and knocker equally.
I've gone through my home and examined *every* electrical gadget, appliance, etc.
98% of the products I have use electricity when not being used! 98%!!!!Things which have no reason to use power when off! Things which used to have a regular on/off switch.
Seems to me someone wants me to be using more electricity!
So I post on the internet that I am shutting this stuff off and I get a good number of responses NOT wanting me to do this!
Seems to me someone wants me to be using more electricity!
Now a consumer suggests manufacturers should be required to make products which use less electricity when off. Then that person gets hit with flak!
Seems to me someone wants everyone to be using more electricity!
Hey, not me.
Vic - VP Marketing, Commonwealth Edison
Seems to me that you repeat yourself .... *A LOT*.
It's not that no problem exists. You've said that you've *saved* over $120/mo in electricity (more than twice as much as my entire electric bill!). Clearly somewhere in your house there are things pulling massive amounts of power.
What most of us are saying is that things like doorbell transformers and wall warts don't consume enough electricity to be significant in this. Now, unplugging unused wall warts isn't a bad idea. I've got most of the ones I use to recharge batteries plugged into an outlet strip, and only turn it on when I'm recharging something. But I don't know if I'm recouping enough money to pay for the (cheap) outlet strip. Where you need to look is 1) things that make heat (esp. electric heaters, furnaces, stoves, and water heaters, for the most part stuff like hair driers, coffee makers, waffle irons, etc. aren't turned on for long enough to be of major significance if you're not living in a restaurant or hair salon), 2) things with powerful electric motors (A/C, heat pumps, dehumidifiers, blowers, refrigerators and freezers), and 3) incandescent (including halogen) bulbs that are on for long periods. Pretty much in that order. Those things are where your payback can be real, and large.
Dave
over
ve got most of
if I'm
the outlet strip likely has a power on light of some sort wasting power when its on..
individually the amount wasted is likely small, however nationwide for everyone it must add up and waste is waste.....
given global change and energy costs the less waste the better.
and my retired engineer pointed out things can be more efficent if you design it this way.
its governments job to encourage efficency.
I would be interested in seeing your list of 50 or 100 items and especially interested in seeing how much electricity they use.
I could do without electricity completely- except that I like the convenience. I suspect the electricity your appliances are using is providing some sort of convenience. If you'd rather use less electricity and don't care about the convenience, then unplug them- or put a switch on the plugs.
Jim
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