Doorbell always uses electricity!

Page 6 of 10  


Au contraire, my condescending "friend". He would find my approach to this inane thread quite amusing.

You are mistaking cynicism for ignorance.
--
JR

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On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 21:36:31 -0600, Jim Redelfs

And he'd laugh at your earlier comment about how sad you think it is that deaf people probably voted?

No, I'm seeing contempt, not cynicism.
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If that is how my comment was taken, I apologize. It was NOT directed at deaf people.

In that case, again I apologize. I hold no contempt for those doing what they like.
--
:)
JR

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On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 10:24:08 -0600, Jim Redelfs

Apology accepted; thanks.
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Redelfs wrote:

Most doorbell transformers consume a couple watts. Only a few hundred million amounts to an amount fairly typical for an electric power plant, at least an only moderately smallish one.

3 watts for a clock radio, 2 watts for the main cordless phone, 1 watt for the other cordless phone, 1 watt for the microwave, 1 watt for the DTV box, 11 watts for the TV, 2 watts for a doorbell... That is 21 watts. Over 50 years that amounts to 9 megawatt-hours, and I don't have a video recorder pluggen most of the time, and my computer, printer and monitor are on a power strip - and I use the switch on that. A household's idling load from low power constant loads can somewhat easily be 30 watts or more.
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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snipped-for-privacy@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:

At .10/kWh, that amounts to ~$26.30/year.
I can EASILY live with that. If that figure were to triple, I might CONSIDER eliminating "idling load". (Nice term, BTW)
I would more likely follow my own advice and hang out to dry a few loads of laundry that would otherwise be dried in the electric clothes dryer.
--
:)
JR

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And if I can reduce that by 60-75% or so with 2-3 power strips?

Many apartment buildings forbid outdoor clothes drying. If I was very severely frugal in such places, I would use indoor clotheslines when temperature and humidity are favorable for such.
Thankfully I have yet to experience having any of my clothes dried in an electric clothes dryer at age well into the 40's. My experience is that clothes driers got their heat from natural gas - although in one apartment building I lived in, with electric stoves as opposed to gas ones, the driers had a "fuel oil" odor.
Also consider that in the metro areas of NYC, Philadelphia and Chicago, most residential electricity costs more like 14 cents per KWH. And in the portion of the Philly area served by what was formerly PECO, during a defined summer period monthly consumption past 500 or 600 or whatever KWH gets billed at more like 18 cents per KWH.
(From memory - I did not actually drag into my view my electric bill for last August. I will do so if my figures from my memory are disputed.)
Getting aggressive against "idling load" can somewhat easily reduce power consumption by close to 10 KWH per month, plus another 2, maybe even 3 KWH per month during air conditioning season. At 18 cents or even if it is 16 cents per KWH in most of the Philly area for electricity consumption past 500-600 KWH per month during air conditioning season, I see a couple bucks per month in savings. At other times of the year, I see $1.25-$1.50 per month in savings from being aggressive against "phantom load" in/near Philly, NYC and Chicago.
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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snipped-for-privacy@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:

<ahem> More POWER to you!
--
:)
JR

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Don Klipstein wrote:

In the heating season, the humidity from such indoor drying is beneficial. There are also inexpensive folding wooden drying racks which work well so long as you do not generate massive quantities of damp laundry at one time. In my experience, a large folding rack can dry a moderate machine-load of laundry, so long as it does not include more than one sheet.
Assuming one has space to set a rack up without it being in the way, they're no more work than a power dryer, although it may take a day for the load to dry.
Dave
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Jim Redelfs wrote:

Actually the small waste is what adds up the most.

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It is great to see someone actually measured the watt draw then did the math for the houses in this country. Our houses have so many small loads in them that we need to get busy and decrease them. No Im not recommending making them unsafe, just efficient.
Here is some information from the California Energy Comission
1. "Energy Use of Household Electronics: Taming the Wild Growth" is a two-page technical brief. The phantom load (the power used by appliances that are in standby mode) of residential appliances in 50 California homes have been measured. Contrary to what might have been expected, findings indicate that phantom load prevention (mostly by unplugging appliances that are not in use), while still advisable, would not save a great deal of energy. The loads of appliances in active mode represent the lion's share of energy consumption, and suggestions to reduce this energy use are offered as a means to bring about much more dramatic energy savings than phantom load reductions might. View this document at http://www.esource.com/esource/getpub/public/pdf/cec/CEC-TB - 32_HsholdElectronics.pdf.
2. "What Lies Within: Improving the Efficiency of Internal Power Supplies" is a two-page technical brief. It describes how Ecos Consulting and the Electric Power Research Institute have developed energy efficiencies for appliances, how they are interacting with various members of the appliance sector to encourage the implementation of those energy efficiencies, and how they are working with others to encourage energy-efficiency appliance standards. See this document at http://www.esource.com/esource/getpub/public/pdf/cec/CEC-TB - 41_IntPowerSupplies.pdf.
I unwired my transformer about 8 years ago and installed a door knocker. My friends know to knock and the sales people push the door bell (too bad I miss them). I also have had a negative electric bill since June 2002. We first got efficient then installed Solar Electric (PV).
So the concept of reducing the bill is great, lets do it SAFE. We all need to question the power consumption on and off of anything we buy. If the sales person cannot provide us with the rated consumption we should tell them no thanks. When sales drops enough the companies will start providing the info.
Some may say it will hurt our economy. Just look at what being inefficient has done for us. Sending nearly 1 Trillion dollars out of our country every year, being spent on a product that has a finite supply and spews pollution into our precious atmosphere, causing health issues we do not even know about yet. The possibility of climate change (for those who still do not believe, I do). The cost of these things are un-totaled and likely far exceed the cost of the fuel.
Think Whole House Performance, its the right thing to do.
Andy
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Andy Energy wrote:

Yes, many houses do have 300 watt halogen torchiere lamps. Probably most houses have quite a few incandescents that can be replaced with CFLs, and a few still have older fridges that may consume twice as much power as their replacements.
Some have electric dryers and a few have electric heat. Then there are the big-screen TVs.
Along with air conditioning - some of which is used to pump out the heat from the electric loads.
I would battle both the active loads and the phantom loads.
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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Nickel and dime stuff, not to mention the time you put into the conversion.
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This thread has seemed to hit a nerve!
Why are so many people getting upset that I am working to eliminate "vampire loads" in my house and reduce my electric bill?
Anyway here are the facts about "vampire power" for those who are interested in this (can be 5% of your electric bill and 75% of the power for electronic things is used while the devices are turned off!).... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standby_power
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Bill wrote:

electronic devices, I worked in a TV repair shop when television sets had tubes, not just a picture tube but the whole freaking chassis. The heat put out by an old tube type TV set was enough to keep a small house warm. There was a considerable wait for the dinosaur video displays to come to life because all those tubes had to warm up. As a convenience feature, manufacturers added a feature called "instant on". This kept all those tube filaments warm with partial power. I imagine the standby power for the old sets would be enough to run more than several modern televisions. One of the TV manufacturers held a seminar in town for all of their dealers where they showed off the new line of televisions that had the new fangled switching power supplies that allowed a solid state transistorized TV to operate on less than a hundred watts of power and when the incoming line voltage dropped as low as 80 volts AC. It was an impressive demonstration on that day 35 years ago.
TDD
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More than one, to be sure.

Since you finally revealed the motivation for your actions, I can address it specifically: Your efforts, particularly with the doorbell transformer switch, are misapplied.
If, instead of using the clothes dryer, you were to hang a couple or three loads of laundry on a line to dry, you would save more money on your electric bill than you would during a lifetime without so-called "phantom" loads against your bill.

I couldn't care less about the vampire power consumption in my home. The cost of such usage is the price I pay - WILLINGLY - for the convenience of not worrying about such trivial and ridiculous things.
I cheerfully decline to unplug my cell phone charger between uses. That the transformer powering my rarely used doorbell consumes power does not concern me in the least.
My home is well insulated. My motor vehicles are sufficiently fuel efficient for what they do for me. I turn off lights in unoccupied rooms and turn down the thermostat (during heating season) during the night and when the house is unoccupied. Likewise, I turn it up (during the cooling season) under the same conditions.
I do not litter. I sparingly use the most benign, approved chemicals that will do what I need.
With all of that done, I am content to ignore so-called "phantom" or "vampire" energy consumption. It is, comparatively, such a miniscule part of my total energy consumption, that I don't even think of it. This silly thread has caused me to think of it and, in doing so, I am even more convinced now that I am doing the right thing.
I appreciate your conservation efforts although I believe your time would be more productive spent volunteering at a hospital or social support organization.
If, after you have implemented all the "first tier" conservation practices and improvements, you wish to further pursue the incredibly minor conservation items, be my guest.
I thank God that I live in a country and society where you are free to pursue such things. I further thank God that I am free to NOT do likewise. I will always remain vigilant that such freedom continues despite the ongoing efforts of those that would deny those freedoms.
Translation: I will vigorously oppose the day when a Doorbell Transformer Switch is mandated by my government at any level.
Second translation: Stick a CF bulb in it and SCREW IT!
--
:)
JR

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Jim Redelfs wrote:

The other point worth making is that the power and cost figures for standby power are routinely exaggerated. Those with political interest in having everyone else unplug everything are either not competent in the subject, or are happy to be lses than honest to try to motivate others to unplug.
And of course, biggest of all... youve only got one life, try to spend the time doing something useful. Speaking of which.... later.
NT
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snipped-for-privacy@care2.com wrote:

The ones I mentioned in this thread are actual measurements. I have a watt meter!

- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 01:22:33 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:

I have quite an assortment of "wall warts" and other assorted power supplies for devices that have been discarded over the years.
All of them work. I tested 19 of them for idle current draw on a digital meter that reeds to the closes 0.01 amp. 6 of the 19 registered no parasitic draw at all, and the rest varied from .02 to .06 amps
Additionally:
My PC draws .05A The charger for my Craftsman battery drill draws 0.05A
Both battery chargers for nicads / nimh batteries showed no idle current at all.
A 200watt Variac shows no draw at all.
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

I believe you already said that. Its good to have real figures.

Unfortunately its not current that counts, but power. Idle current on transformers does not havea power factor of 1.

sounds like your meter's faulty
NT
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